Asking for Help

[David B]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I am old school with a new school feel. I cannot stand the "get it right at all cost" philosophy. It drives me crazy that umpires every situation feel they need to ask for help. No other sport spends that much time trying to get help on every situation. For one we are not always looking at the same thing and we should not be looking at the same time. And I am with Rich, I hate umpires that cannot refuse a request for "help" from a coach. When it is not appropriate or I know my partner cannot help, I am not asking for help. And yes I have refused requests for checked swings when it is obvious there was no such call that needs to be made. But then again I do not do what the pack does and some reason I have been fine most of my career. We worry way too much about what coaches think when they clearly have an agenda.

Peace

Good point. Too many umpires that I run into spend way too much time worrying about what a "coach" wants.

A coach only wants a couple things, to win and get the next call to go his way.

thanks
David

[mrm21711]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

Why?

I work a bit in the tournaments on a small diamond and I treat it no differently than the big diamonds. I get an angle to see the foot / tag best I can and I make the call. It's my call. If I don't go into it thinking that the plate guy can bail me out, I'm more likely going to work harder to get the right look.

The coaches asking to "get help" on every close play isn't a real effort to "get more calls right." It's an effort to get more calls go their way. Most times, the coach himself has a worse view than the base umpire in the small diamond C position. He's in the 3rd base box. At least 95% of the pulled foot requests I hear involve plays where the fielder stretches, holds the bag, and comes off right after the catch. The umpire looks at the foot, the coach does not and only sees the foot away from the bag a second or two later. Why should I appease him when I *saw* the foot on the bag. And yet I'm "arrogant" if I don't "get help."

If I truly think I need help, I will get it without hesitation. I officiate basketball and I probably go to a partner on an out-of-bounds call on my line at least once a game (and that's with 3 officials). I just don't think that a coach asking is enough for me to go and ask. I truly need to think I may not have seen something, and frankly that doesn't happen very often.

Had this happen over the weekend:

NFHS Rules. Im in B, R1, no outs. Double play ground ball to SS. 1B makes a modest stretch and catches the ball. There is no off-line throw or anything else. Call at 1B seems pretty straightforward and from where I am. On the way back to A, 1B coach asks for an appeal to my partner. What exactly do you say and how do you handle an assistant asking for an appeal? Hows something along the lines of "an appeal has to come from HC, if one is requested."

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by mrm21711

What exactly do you say and how do you handle an assistant asking for an appeal?

Look at him funny and ignore him.

Peace

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by mrm21711

Had this happen over the weekend:

NFHS Rules. Im in B, R1, no outs. Double play ground ball to SS. 1B makes a modest stretch and catches the ball. There is no off-line throw or anything else. Call at 1B seems pretty straightforward and from where I am. On the way back to A, 1B coach asks for an appeal to my partner. What exactly do you say and how do you handle an assistant asking for an appeal? Hows something along the lines of "an appeal has to come from HC, if one is requested."

IMO, this is an art. Some people like to pretend that ASSt. coaches don't exist; this has not worked for me, and around here umpires are expected to interact with ASSt. coaches.

What I say often depends on how the coach asks me. If he's shouting, I'll tend to ignore him and look over at the head coach (usually in the 3rd base coaching box or the dugout) and see whether he has a question about the play. If he persists, I'll tell him that the head coach isn't concerned, and we're going to play ball. Otherwise, I'll answer the head coach.

If the question is quiet and respectful, I'll generally answer it on my way back to my position: "That's my call all the way, and I saw the whole play; if I needed help, I would have already asked for it."

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by mbyron

IMO, this is an art. Some people like to pretend that ASSt. coaches don't exist; this has not worked for me, and around here umpires are expected to interact with ASSt. coaches.

What I say often depends on how the coach asks me. If he's shouting, I'll tend to ignore him and look over at the head coach (usually in the 3rd base coaching box or the dugout) and see whether he has a question about the play. If he persists, I'll tell him that the head coach isn't concerned, and we're going to play ball. Otherwise, I'll answer the head coach.

If the question is quiet and respectful, I'll generally answer it on my way back to my position: "That's my call all the way, and I saw the whole play; if I needed help, I would have already asked for it."

The seen and not heard philosophy is basically what you just said most people do that I know. We only ignore the AC when they are acting like a fool and the HC is saying little or nothing. Or if the HC and the AC is going crazy, we only address the HC. In other words, I am not having multiple discussions with multiple people. The HC is the main person in charge (which the rule makes even clearer) and that is usually the reason most umpires/officials decide not to pay much attention to ACs in the first place. It does not literally mean that people totally ignore a coach that is very respectful and doing their job. Some ACs are the ones that communicate certain issues with an umpire and that is totally appropriate.

Peace