The weird stuff!

[tjones1]

Sad... but hopefully it will come back and bite them soon enough.

You are correct in your thinking.

According to the BRD, 87 Batter: Improper Batter: Substitute Report/Enter for Wrong Batter

There is no provision and Carl states to treat as in OBR.

OBR reads point not coverved; however, Mike Fitzpatrick (former director of PBUC) offered this:

"A substitute cannot bat out of order, for he is replacing whoever should be at the plate. There is no penalty when the substitute reports for the wrong player if the batting order is not affected."

Play 71-87: Able should bat. Substitute Jackson arrives at the plate and tells the UIC: "I'm Jackson, batting for Baker." The umpire pencils in the change but does not catch the error. Jackson singles. Now Baker bats and singes. Before a pitch or a play, the defense appeals. Ruling: No penalty. The substitute reported for the wrong player, but the batting order continued without interruption.

HOWEVER...

Fitzpatrick: If the pitcher bats for anyone other than the DH: When appealed properly, the pitcher is an improper batter. The proper batter is out and removed from the game. The pitcher will continue to bat in the spot of the replaced player, and the new defensive player hits in the DH spot. The role of the DH is terminated whenever the infraction is discovered.

Play: NCAA and OBR only. Able should bat but the pitcher Jackson reports as a pinch hitter. The umpire does not discover the error. After Jackson walks, the defense appeals. Ruling: In NCAA, the pitcher is ejected and replaced with a pinch runner. The role of the DH is not affected. In OBR, Able is out and removed from the game. Baker will lead off the next half inning. The role of the DH s terminated, whenever discovered. The player replacing Able will hit in the DH spot.

Carl notes this: "Some internet 'experts' on the newsgroup went to great lengths to prove that Fitzpatrick's interpretation was wrong. Mike might not be right, but he cannnot be wrong. LOL" [Edit: Wrong in regard to the pitcher batting for anyone other than the DH]

[MrUmpire]

I quit reading after seeing that the umpire did not give the PH information to the opposing book.

I haven't worked with umpires that "mediocre".

[yawetag]

Originally Posted by MrUmpire

I quit reading after seeing that the umpire did not give the PH information to the opposing book.

I haven't worked with umpires that "mediocre".

I agree. When a batter comes up and says, "13 coming in, Blue," I'm asking him who he's replacing in the lineup. If he doesn't know, he's yelling back to find it. Once I get it, I'm going to the other book to report the change. Hopefully they'll notice the error and point it out.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by yawetag

I agree. When a batter comes up and says, "13 coming in, Blue," I'm asking him who he's replacing in the lineup. If he doesn't know, he's yelling back to find it. Once I get it, I'm going to the other book to report the change. Hopefully they'll notice the error and point it out.

Around here the sub is generally announced, with a lot of shouts of "13 for 21! 13 for 21!" And given my system for writing subs (which I learned from our own Tee), I will know who has subbed for whom and will be able to adjudicate BOO.

OTOH, if the sub is not announced, then he's subbing for the correct batter. Doesn't matter what the coach's intention was here.

In other news, hi Peter! Long time no see...What was it you used to say about TWP's happening to TWU's?

[Skarecrow]

Originally Posted by mbyron

And given my system for writing subs (which I learned from our own Tee).....

Could you share this system for some of us newer officials...always looking for a better way....thanks....Skarecrow

[jicecone]

Originally Posted by Skarecrow

Could you share this system for some of us newer officials...always looking for a better way....thanks....Skarecrow

Not totally sure if this is the same as T's but, substitute comes in game I put his number next to starter and x out his number below, and circle starter number. No scratching out of names and subs should be listed below anyway with names. Circle means the player is eligible to return.

If starter comes back in I simply x out sub number. If another sub comes in for starter, starters number with circle gets x-out. This applies to DH also.

After the game you can easily read the lineup and names if a report is necessary, and it takes less time during the game writing a number, an X, or circling a number.

As already stated here, any change that goes on the sheet is relayed to the other book using numbers 6 for 8 etc. If the team says the ninth batter, well they better have a number to along with that request or we are not playing until there is. I really don't care if the announcer gets the change or not, I leave that up to the teams.

[Crabnut]

I think we already got here, but I am going to run through it the whole way just to be sure I got it right.

The substitute batted in the eighth spot. Doesn’t matter if he was announced wrong or written in the wrong spot in the book or the umpire’s lineup. He batted in the eighth spot. He is legitimately B8 once the next batter steps into the box, regardless of who he reported for, and the old B8 is no longer in the game. The next batter to follow, B1, got on base, whereupon play was stopped and a batting out of order appeal was made. B1 is batting out of order, for B9, who is still in the game regardless of what the book or PU’s lineup says. At that point, B1’s advance is nullified, other runners are returned to where they were before B1 got on base, B9 is declared out, and B1 becomes the next batter.

[His High Holiness]

OTOH, if the sub is not announced, then he's subbing for the correct batter. Doesn't matter what the coach's intention was here.

In other news, hi Peter! Long time no see...What was it you used to say about TWP's happening to TWU's?

Yes, and according to the BRD, even if he is an announced substitute for an incorrect batter, he was still batting for the correct batter even in FED. The umpire and scorekeepers are to change their records. A pinch hitter can never be BOO except in case of a pitcher with the DH rule.

Can you imagine trying to explain that to a coach?!!!!!!!!

Thank you to the poster for pointing me to the relevant BRD ruling. I knew I was right for OBR and NCAA, but I had was totally unaware that it applied to FED.

This gets more complicated in FED when the starting 9th batter tries to reenter as an unreported sub pinch hitter in the 8th hole.

As for TWP and TWU, I plead guilty. $hit happens to everyone sooner or later. My only defense is that I was not the PU and was totally unaware of what was going on until it was time to clean up the mess.

Peter