WTF Just Happened at 3rd NY vs LAA

[SanDiegoSteve]

THE WORST CALL EVER

[Lawrence.Dorsey]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

THE WORST CALL EVER

I am going to defend Tim a little here. I definitely think he got the play wrong and won't argue that. I also won't argue that a step or two of hustle may have let him see the play. With that said, here are my comments.

The picture that SDS shows in my opinion oversimplifies what happened in the play. Both Cano and Posada were moving simultaneously. Tim is focused on Posada because it is obvious the Angels want to get him out first. As Posada is tagged he and Mike Napoli are both between Tim and Cano. In the replay shot from behind 3B you can clearly see this. Cano is not on the bag when he is tagged but it is possible that Posada and Napoli blocked Tim out. When Posada and Napoli clear out, Cano is standing on the bag. I also think Tim wouldn't even guess that a runner would stop 2 feet from the bag and just stand there. Why Cano did this is still unexplainable to me.

Had Tim adjusted prior to the play, he may have had a better angle on Cano but gotten straight lined on Posada. In real time the tags happended very fast so I doubt he could put much thought into what angle would give him the best position for both runners. Might have done better, maybe not.

My beef in this play is what happened to Jerry Layne? I am assuming he trailed the play at least a few feet up the 3B line. He should have had a good look at Cano off the bag and could have offered help. From the plate looking up the 3rd baseline, this is an easy call with no one in the way.

I still don't know why he called Swisher out for leaving early. He never even looked at Swisher and should have gotten a far better angle to line up the tag and catch.

Lawrence

[Kevin Finnerty]

If Tim McClelland had asked Layne for help, I'm sure he would have gotten the call right. But he wasn't interested in getting it right. Lazy positioning; not interested in getting the call right. Bad combination.

[kylejt]

Originally Posted by Kevin Finnerty

If Tim McClelland had asked Layne for help, I'm sure he would have gotten the call right. But he wasn't interested in getting it right. Lazy positioning; not interested in getting the call right. Bad combination.

We can put a hair of the blame on the manager, for not asking Tim to get help. I'm pretty sure he would have if asked.

There are times, when you're blocked out, that you just make the call. This may have been the case. That's why I find the tag-up/out call far worse. He didn't see it, but still called him out for leaving early. There's no excuse on that one.

[Kevin Finnerty]

Originally Posted by kylejt

We can put a hair of the blame on the manager, for not asking Tim to get help. I'm pretty sure he would have if asked.

There are times, when you're blocked out, that you just make the call. This may have been the case. That's why I find the tag-up/out call far worse. He didn't see it, but still called him out for leaving early. There's no excuse on that one.

The jury's still out on what McClelland and Scioscia said. I can't imagine Mike not asking him to get help; I can imagine McClelland refusing to ask for help.

[RPatrino]

I'm with Kyle, I thought the blown call on the tag up was much more of a gross miss than the play at third. Now, that's not an excuse for the bad call, but the Cano/Posada cluster had a lot more moving parts then the 3rd base FUBAR.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by RPatrino

I'm with Kyle, I thought the blown call on the tag up was much more of a gross miss than the play at third. Now, that's not an excuse for the bad call, but the Cano/Posada cluster had a lot more moving parts then the 3rd base FUBAR.

I do not know if I agree with that. That was at least the pick off play was a closer play and a quick play. The play at third would have been made correctly if he just moved a little one way or the other. He assumed players were where they were instead of seeing them. I am not a fan of the pick off play call, but at least we have all had very close plays like that and the main way we know he missed that call was by the replay. You hardly needed a replay to judge what was wrong with the play at third base.

Peace

[UmpTTS43]

Originally Posted by Lawrence.Dorsey

I am going to defend Tim a little here. I definitely think he got the play wrong and won't argue that. I also won't argue that a step or two of hustle may have let him see the play. With that said, here are my comments.

The picture that SDS shows in my opinion oversimplifies what happened in the play. Both Cano and Posada were moving simultaneously. Tim is focused on Posada because it is obvious the Angels want to get him out first. As Posada is tagged he and Mike Napoli are both between Tim Cano. In the replay shot from behind 3B and you can clearly see this. Cano is not on the bag when he is tagged but it is possible that Posada and Napoli blocked Tim out. When Posada and Napoli clear out, Cano is standing on the bag. I also think Tim wouldn't even guess that a runner would stop 2 feet from the bag and just stand there. Why Cano did this is still unexplainable to me.

Had Tim adjusted prior to the play, he may have had a better angle on Cano but gotten straight lined on Posada. In real time the tags happended very fast so I doubt he could put much thought into what angle would give him the best position for both runners. Might have done better, maybe not.

My beef in this play is what happened to Jerry Layne? I am assuming he trailed the play at least a few feet up the 3B line. He should have had a good look at Cano off the bag and could have offered help. From the plate looking up the 3rd baseline, this is an easy call with no one in the way.

I still don't know why he called Swisher out for leaving early. He never even looked at Swisher and should have gotten a far better angle to line up the tag and catch.

Lawrence

blah blah blah

I have taken umps off of varsity games for more more hustle than "Timmy Killin the Grass" showed here, which was still unacceptable.

Pink slip him NOW.

[grunewar]

Today on ESPN's Around the Horn, Kevin Blackistone said, "The best thing to happen to sports is television - unless you're an official."

[buckyswider]

Now how about this for call #2 (the "two runners on third" play.)

U3 says he thought that R2 was touching third when tagged. R3 retreated to and past third. If that's what he thought he saw, at this point shouldn't R2 have been declarded out for passing, and then R3 out when tagged?

[tibear]

Originally Posted by buckyswider

Now how about this for call #2 (the "two runners on third" play.)

U3 says he thought that R2 was touching third when tagged. R3 retreated to and past third. If that's what he thought he saw, at this point shouldn't R2 have been declarded out for passing, and then R3 out when tagged?

Exactly what I was thinking....

Another angle.....Why is Cano protected from being tagged out if the Tim believes he is touching third base? It doesn't belong to him, it belongs to Posada. Does third protect both Cano AND Posada??

Basically, there should have been two outs regardless of what he "thought" he saw. Cano for being off the bag and being tagged or Cano out for passing Posada AND Posada out for being tagged off the base.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by tibear

Exactly what I was thinking....

Another angle.....Why is Cano protected from being tagged out if the Tim believes he is touching third base? It doesn't belong to him, it belongs to Posada. Does third protect both Cano AND Posada??

Basically, there should have been two outs regardless of what he "thought" he saw. Cano for being off the bag and being tagged or Cano out for passing Posada AND Posada out for being tagged off the base.

No, if Cano had been on the base when tagged, like McClelland thought, he would have been as called, safe. He never passed Posada, and Posada doesn't have a claim to that base until he stands on it, which he never did; he was tagged off the base. So, McClelland, who was screened out on the play, thought Cano was on the base and he could see Posada was off the base, therefore he called Cano safe and Posada out. Only if both runners are tagged while both on the same base does the base belong to the preceding runner.

[Umpmazza]

[QUOTE=tibear;632234]Exactly what I was thinking....

Another angle.....Why is Cano protected from being tagged out if the Tim believes he is touching third base? It doesn't belong to him, it belongs to Posada. Does third protect both Cano AND Posada??

Basically, there should have been two outs regardless of what he "thought" he saw. Cano for being off the bag and being tagged or Cano out for passing Posada AND Posada out for being tagged off the base.[/QUOTE]

When in the heck did they pass each other.. did you watch the play?

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by grunewar

Today on ESPN's Around the Horn, Kevin Blackistone said, "The best thing to happen to sports is television - unless you're an official."

Marriotti was full of crap saying that the umpires are too timid. Sometimes he's a real jackass.