Ball four, runners moving, pass ball, out of play...

[JasonWilliam]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

The ball went out of play on a pitch. The runners are awarded 1 base from their position at the time of the pitch. One base from the rubber, two from the field is the general rule of thumb for fans to grasp.

Right... but the pitch resulted in a walk. So the walk happened first, which means the runners were immediately awarded one base, then the ball went out of play, meaning the runners should have been awarded one more base. No?

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by JasonWilliam

Right... but the pitch resulted in a walk. So the walk happened first, which means the runners were immediately awarded one base, then the ball went out of play, meaning the runners should have been awarded one more base. No?

No. The runners are awarded bases (in this case) from their position at the Time of the Pitch, which is when the pitcher starts his motion. It's the same as if the pitcher, while on the rubber, steps to first and tries to pick off the runner, but the ball goes into the stands. One base per runner. If he steps back off the rubber, then throws wildly to first into the stands, the runners each get two bases. The walk in this case has nothing to do with the award, only the position of the pitcher (on the rubber), and the runners' positions at the Time of the Pitch. The runners weren't awarded bases, they were forced to advance on the base on balls.

[JasonWilliam]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

No. The runners are awarded bases (in this case) from their position at the Time of the Pitch, which is when the pitcher starts his motion. It's the same as if the pitcher, while on the rubber, steps to first and tries to pick off the runner, but the ball goes into the stands. One base per runner. If he steps back off the rubber, then throws wildly to first into the stands, the runners each get two bases. The walk in this case has nothing to do with the award, only the position of the pitcher (on the rubber), and the runners' positions at the Time of the Pitch. The runners weren't awarded bases, they were forced to advance on the base on balls.

I'm a little confused, so bear with me? Honestly I'm trying to understand...

Let me change the scenario a bit. Lets say bases are empty. Ball four bounces out of play. Does the hitter end up at first or second base?

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by JasonWilliam

I'm a little confused, so bear with me? Honestly I'm trying to understand...

Let me change the scenario a bit. Lets say bases are empty. Ball four bounces out of play. Does the hitter end up at first or second base?

First base. He was at home plate as a batter when the ball went out of play. One base.

[JasonWilliam]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

Rule:

7.05 Each runner including the batter-runner may, without liability to be put out, advance—

(h) One base, if a ball, pitched to the batter, or thrown by the pitcher from his position on the pitcher’s plate to a base to catch a runner, goes into a stand or a bench, or over or through a field fence or backstop. The ball is dead;

APPROVED RULING: When a wild pitch or passed ball goes through or by the catcher, or deflects off the catcher, and goes directly into the dugout, stands, above the break, or any area where the ball is dead, the awarding of bases shall be one base. One base shall also be awarded if the pitcher while in contact with the rubber, throws to a base, and the throw goes directly into the stands or into any area where the ball is dead.
If, however, the pitched or thrown ball goes through or by the catcher or through the fielder, and remains on the playing field, and is subsequently kicked or deflected into the dugout, stands or other area where the ball is dead, the awarding of bases shall be two bases from position of runners at the time of the pitch or throw.

Ah there we go. I had read 7.05 before posting, but I missed the APPROVED RULING portion.

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

First base. He was at home plate as a batter when the ball went out of play. One base.

Gotcha. Makes sense after having read the approved ruling.

Thanks for the help. I played for 20 years and this happened to me once; I was pitching, threw a wild pitch for ball four that ended up out of play (directly; no deflection or kick). The ump awarded the batter 2nd base. That has always stuck in my head as a point of confusion. Not so any longer.

Thanks for all the help

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by JasonWilliam

I played for 20 years and this happened to me once; I was the pitching, threw a wild pitch for ball four that ended up out of play (directly; no deflection or kick). The ump awarded the batter 2nd base. That has always stuck in my head as a point of confusion. Not so any longer.

This umpire you had 20 years ago screwed the pooch!

[JasonWilliam]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

This umpire you had 20 years ago screwed the pooch!

LOL I played for 20 years. This happened in college

Thanks again guys.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Rule:

7.05 Each runner including the batter-runner may, without liability to be put out, advance—

(h) One base, if a ball, pitched to the batter, or thrown by the pitcher from his position on the pitcher’s plate to a base to catch a runner, goes into a stand or a bench, or over or through a field fence or backstop. The ball is dead;

APPROVED RULING: When a wild pitch or passed ball goes through or by the catcher, or deflects off the catcher, and goes directly into the dugout, stands, above the break, or any area where the ball is dead, the awarding of bases shall be one base. One base shall also be awarded if the pitcher while in contact with the rubber, throws to a base, and the throw goes directly into the stands or into any area where the ball is dead.
If, however, the pitched or thrown ball goes through or by the catcher or through the fielder, and remains on the playing field, and is subsequently kicked or deflected into the dugout, stands or other area where the ball is dead, the awarding of bases shall be two bases from position of runners at the time of the pitch or throw.