Should I have intervened

jicecone · #1 (**permalink**) Thu Oct 08, 2009, 01:47pm

Once again, wait for your partner to ask.

I was once in the "C" position and it was an inside pitch that everyone in the park saw the batter turn on and get plunked in the back except my partner. He finnally asked if the batter got hit and I replied yes. Othewrwise it was his call and sometimes that is the way it is.

By the same token, I have worked with partners that will never ask for any help, so sometimes you just shutup and let them learn how to swim alone. But I would let them know back at the car what I saw.

Mrumpiresir · #2 (**permalink**) Thu Oct 08, 2009, 02:07pm

Thanks for the replies. At the time I just couldn't bear to let this little twerp get away with cheating.

Hammerin Hank · #3 (**permalink**) Thu Oct 08, 2009, 02:42pm

I had a similar situation with a player mgr 2 seasons ago. He asked me if I saw the batter stick his elbow in. The game was already 2 hrs / 20 minutes, the temperature was just above freezing. I just looked at him and folded my arms, and walked away from him. I guess he took that as a yes, and he walked over to the PU, & during his argument, he indicated that I said that I saw the batter do this. PU calls me over and asked me if I said anything. I said no. PU said to me, watch this. PU goes back to the PM, and called him a fabricator for saying that I told him. The PM said, that I was the liar. PU tossed him. It was hilarious watching the PM tossing his hat, glove, batting glove. It took 2 of his players to cart him off. His behavior has been perfect since. Fabricator. Good word, especially in a long cold one.

RPatrino · #4 (**permalink**) Thu Oct 08, 2009, 02:46pm

You noticed the HBP, hopefully you immediately killed play, then you saw your partner award 1b, now move to your next position.

You have no role, unsolicted, regarding the batters "intent".

Rich Ives · #5 (**permalink**) Thu Oct 08, 2009, 03:21pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mrumpiresir

Thanks for the replies. At the time I just couldn't bear to let this little twerp get away with cheating.

Cheating? What rule did he break?

BigUmp56 · #6 (**permalink**) Thu Oct 08, 2009, 04:03pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rich Ives

Cheating? What rule did he break?

Spoken like a true rat.............

Tim.

SanDiegoSteve · #7 (**permalink**) Thu Oct 08, 2009, 04:07pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rich Ives

Cheating? What rule did he break?

In OBR it's not officially considered "cheating."

In FED, rule 7-3-4 states that "a batter shall not permit a pitched ball to touch him." That is saying directly that it is cheating.

6.08(b)(2) doesn't come right out and call it cheating, but only players or coaches would not consider it a form of cheating trying to get a base on balls by intentionally allowing the pitch to hit them.

Adam · #8 (**permalink**) Thu Oct 08, 2009, 04:17pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

In OBR it's not officially considered "cheating."

In FED, rule 7-3-4 states that "a batter shall not permit a pitched ball to touch him." That is saying directly that it is cheating.

6.08(b)(2) doesn't come right out and call it cheating, but only players or coaches would not consider it a form of cheating trying to get a base on balls by intentionally allowing the pitch to hit them.

And in the OP, the batter didn't just let it hit him, he moved into the pitch.

kylejt · #9 (**permalink**) Thu Oct 08, 2009, 04:33pm

Everyone on the field has a job to do, and it was the defensive manager's job to go to the PU as ask him to get help from you. The manager failed in his duties. The offensive manager knew the proper procedure, and rightfully got upset about it. (Now you shouldn't get so flipped out that you earn an EJ, but he did have a point.)

Bottom line: Follow the proper procedures.

Cub42 · #10 (**permalink**) Thu Oct 08, 2009, 05:29pm

You wait for the PU to come to you for help. He must come to you for help. You give him what you have, and then he is the one who would overturn the call. You also need to discuss at that point how you are going to handle the sh--house that is coming

mikebran · #11 (**permalink**) Sat Oct 10, 2009, 10:57am

A gold star poster award for discussing the protocol. The original poster

My partner did not say anything (maybe he was blocked by the catcher) so I stroll in and have a private conference with my partner.

set off the AOOOGA alarm. Enough people have said this is wrong, and I hope he got the message.

As you said there is a METHOD. PU did see the HBP. If Def coach feels wronged. He comes out. Talks to PU... PU at his option, talks to BU... that's the way. Or at least some people do it that way.

Quote:

Originally Posted by kylejt

Everyone on the field has a job to do, and it was the defensive manager's job to go to the PU as ask him to get help from you. The manager failed in his duties. The offensive manager knew the proper procedure, and rightfully got upset about it. (Now you shouldn't get so flipped out that you earn an EJ, but he did have a point.)

Bottom line: Follow the proper procedures.

Rich Ives · #12 (**permalink**) Thu Oct 08, 2009, 05:28pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

6.08(b)(2) doesn't come right out and call it cheating, but only players or coaches would not consider it a form of cheating trying to get a base on balls by intentionally allowing the pitch to hit them.

Exactly. The participants (both teams) don't think it's cheating.

The rule doesn't make it cheating. It says you can't go to 1B if you don't try to get out of the way. Nothing requires you to get out of the way - just a penalty if you fail to do so. Might be cheating with the FED rule but not in OBR.

Umpire's call.

SanDiegoSteve · #13 (**permalink**) Thu Oct 08, 2009, 05:53pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rich Ives

Exactly. The participants (both teams) don't think it's cheating.

The rule doesn't make it cheating. It says you can't go to 1B if you don't try to get out of the way. Nothing requires you to get out of the way - just a penalty if you fail to do so. Might be cheating with the FED rule but not in OBR.

Umpire's call.

It still is cheating, it's just not spelled out in so many words!

Okay, we'll do the PC thing and use a euphemism: "The batter was only trying to gain an unfair advantage over the defense."

I feel so liberated now!

Rich Ives · #14 (**permalink**) Thu Oct 08, 2009, 10:41pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

It still is cheating, it's just not spelled out in so many words!

Okay, we'll do the PC thing and use a euphemism: "The batter was only trying to gain an unfair advantage over the defense."

I feel so liberated now!

Just like a hidden ball trick.

Or maybe a deke that keeps a runner from going first to third.

Glad to hear you never drive over the limit.

Ump153 · #15 (**permalink**) Thu Oct 08, 2009, 06:11pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rich Ives

Exactly. The participants (both teams) don't think it's cheating.

The rule doesn't make it cheating. It says you can't go to 1B if you don't try to get out of the way. Nothing requires you to get out of the way - just a penalty if you fail to do so. Might be cheating with the FED rule but not in OBR.

Now that's setting a high standard. As long as the coaches and players don't think it's cheating, it's not cheating.

Seriously...the batter didn't just let the ball hit him, he moved into the pitch.