Should I have intervened

[Mrumpiresir]

The post about batters interference reminded me of a situation that I wanted some feedback on.

Jr Legion game.
I am BU in the C position and I see the batter definitely thrust his elbow out into a high inside pitch. No doubt in my mind. The batter drops his bat and trots down to first. My partner did not say anything (maybe he was blocked by the catcher) so I stroll in and have a private conference with my partner. I tell him the batter intentionally moved into the pitch to get hit and should not be awarded first. He says he did not see it but if I did, we would bring the kid back to the plate. I gave the info I had and he made the call.

My question is; Should I have said anything since I wasn't asked or do you guys feel this is similar to a batted ball which hits the batter that we kill when we see it?

This did result in the ejection of the Head coach of the offensive team but that's another story.

[mbyron]

Properly speaking, this is PU's call all the way.

If my partner were a rookie and it was low-level ball, I might say something between innings.

[nopachunts]

Agree with mbyron. PU's call all the way and if he doesn't ask, don't go digging for boogers. If if the DHC asks you, tell the DHC he/she should talk to the PU.
If you tell the DHC to talk to the PU, watch your words, tone of voice, and body language so as not to throw the PU under the bus.

[jicecone]

Once again, wait for your partner to ask.

I was once in the "C" position and it was an inside pitch that everyone in the park saw the batter turn on and get plunked in the back except my partner. He finnally asked if the batter got hit and I replied yes. Othewrwise it was his call and sometimes that is the way it is.

By the same token, I have worked with partners that will never ask for any help, so sometimes you just shutup and let them learn how to swim alone. But I would let them know back at the car what I saw.

[Mrumpiresir]

Thanks for the replies. At the time I just couldn't bear to let this little twerp get away with cheating.

[Hammerin Hank]

I had a similar situation with a player mgr 2 seasons ago. He asked me if I saw the batter stick his elbow in. The game was already 2 hrs / 20 minutes, the temperature was just above freezing. I just looked at him and folded my arms, and walked away from him. I guess he took that as a yes, and he walked over to the PU, & during his argument, he indicated that I said that I saw the batter do this. PU calls me over and asked me if I said anything. I said no. PU said to me, watch this. PU goes back to the PM, and called him a fabricator for saying that I told him. The PM said, that I was the liar. PU tossed him. It was hilarious watching the PM tossing his hat, glove, batting glove. It took 2 of his players to cart him off. His behavior has been perfect since. Fabricator. Good word, especially in a long cold one.

[RPatrino]

You noticed the HBP, hopefully you immediately killed play, then you saw your partner award 1b, now move to your next position.

You have no role, unsolicted, regarding the batters "intent".

[Rich Ives]

Originally Posted by Mrumpiresir

Thanks for the replies. At the time I just couldn't bear to let this little twerp get away with cheating.

Cheating? What rule did he break?

[BigUmp56]

Originally Posted by Rich Ives

Cheating? What rule did he break?

Spoken like a true rat.............

Tim.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by Rich Ives

Cheating? What rule did he break?

In OBR it's not officially considered "cheating."

In FED, rule 7-3-4 states that "a batter shall not permit a pitched ball to touch him." That is saying directly that it is cheating.

6.08(b)(2) doesn't come right out and call it cheating, but only players or coaches would not consider it a form of cheating trying to get a base on balls by intentionally allowing the pitch to hit them.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

In OBR it's not officially considered "cheating."

In FED, rule 7-3-4 states that "a batter shall not permit a pitched ball to touch him." That is saying directly that it is cheating.

6.08(b)(2) doesn't come right out and call it cheating, but only players or coaches would not consider it a form of cheating trying to get a base on balls by intentionally allowing the pitch to hit them.

And in the OP, the batter didn't just let it hit him, he moved into the pitch.

[Rich Ives]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

6.08(b)(2) doesn't come right out and call it cheating, but only players or coaches would not consider it a form of cheating trying to get a base on balls by intentionally allowing the pitch to hit them.

Exactly. The participants (both teams) don't think it's cheating.

The rule doesn't make it cheating. It says you can't go to 1B if you don't try to get out of the way. Nothing requires you to get out of the way - just a penalty if you fail to do so. Might be cheating with the FED rule but not in OBR.

Umpire's call.

[DG]

Interesting discussion. What is a rule violation vs. cheating? Are some things considered cheating not covered by rules? And do we care, since we are there to rule on rules? Example, after an offensive TO R1 and R2 exchange places, likely because R1 is faster than R2 if team is cheating, or it could be a mistake.

Another example, R2, defense executes "Miami play", some would consider cheating, but it is not against the rules so is allowed.

[JJ]

In Pro ball, if a player moves into a pitch to get hit (and gain the subsequent advantage of being awarded first base), odds are he won't have to repeat his behavior because the pitcher will gladly oblige him the first chance he gets. At 90+ mph.

JJ

[Forest Ump]

Pro ball is one thing but the amateur guys are encouraged to "take one for the team" from the time they first start to play. Every time it's close some idiot in the stands will yell that. It usually the same idiot that yells "take him out" on a double play ball.