Earrings and a ponytail.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

Some people may not believe in gravity either, but they will if they jump off a building to try to prove their claim. Because you don't believe it doesn't make it not true. The war was prolonged due to the lack of support given to our military leaders at the time, which was largely due to the unpopularity of the "police action" in Vietnam. If our military had not been hamstrung, we would have bombed the NVC back into the stone age and been done with it. Why do you think Vietnam vets are so bitter? We could have won that war, but folks like Hanoi Jane Fonda and others like her swayed public opinion in favor of pulling out and letting the communists overrun South Vietnam. To you, this is history. To me, and many like me, it was our daily lives.

I love how you use a totally irrelevant issue like whether people believe in gravity to address this issue. I do not know anyone that does not believe in gravity. I guess that means you know someone that does?

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

I don't know any fiscal conservatives (how about Joe Lieberman or Zell Miller for example, whom I would vote for in a NY minute) who shared McVeigh's views. McVeigh and his ilk are not what is meant by conservative.

There are more people in the conservative world that are not just fiscal. If that is the case, I am a social conservative considering that most of my views would go along with the social conservative movement, I just do not feel those things are much more things the government should not be dictating. Pat Roberson is not just a fiscal conservative, he is much more of a social conservative and guys like him helped stoke the fire of people like McVeigh and their views of the government.

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

No, you obviously don't get it. There are evil extreme left-wing nut jobs, and evil extreme right-wing nut jobs. McVeigh was an evil ultra-right wing nut job. He has no resemblence to a true conservative.

I did not say there were not left-wing extremists. But you make it sound like to be one you have to hate the military and no one conservative feels that way at all. There are a lot of people that hate the government for a lot of reasons. And no one side has a monopoly on that feeling. But it is not inherent in liberalism to hate the military and it never has been.

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

The vast majority of us are all much closer to the center, and differ only in policy and other minor difference, but we are still loyal Americans. I have many friends who are democrats. We get along great, and they are very patriotic Americans. Liberal and Conservative are not bad words until taken to the extreme in both directions.


Peace, OUT.

Most people that call a side extreme are when those sides do not agree with them.

Peace

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Pat Roberson is not just a fiscal conservative, he is much more of a social conservative and guys like him helped stoke the fire of people like McVeigh and their views of the government.

That is totally asinine and very insulting to me personally to smear a good man like Pat Robertson's name by saying that what he preaches fired up a sleaze bucket like McVeigh. Why don't you go look up what Pat Roberston, the 700 Club, and CBN have done for victims of natural disasters in this country. Find a group who helped out anymore during Katrina, for example. You can't. Yeah, blame the Christians for mentally deranged individuals blowing up a building. Ridiculous link.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Oh, that long list? You sure left a whole lot of democratic politicians and pundits off the list. Where is Barack? Where is Carville or Stephanopolis? Blitzer, Matthews, Olbermann? Just to name a few. I'm sure I can find a whole lot more.

[Kevin Finnerty]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

Oh, that long list? You sure left a whole lot of democratic politicians and pundits off the list. Where is Barack? Where is Carville or Stephanopolis? Blitzer, Matthews, Olbermann? Just to name a few. I'm sure I can find a whole lot more.

It's from 2004. When Kerry got defamed for his service.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Oh yeah, the famous "threw my medals over the wall" scandal.

[Kevin Finnerty]

The point was that Kerry was an actual hero who actually laid his life on the line to serve and actually saved men while he served, while some of those leaders calling him into question--like Cheney--were too busy, or too privileged, or too cowardly to serve.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

That is totally asinine and very insulting to me personally to smear a good man like Pat Robertson's name by saying that what he preaches fired up a sleaze bucket like McVeigh. Why don't you go look up what Pat Roberston, the 700 Club, and CBN have done for victims of natural disasters in this country. Find a group who helped out anymore during Katrina, for example. You can't. Yeah, blame the Christians for mentally deranged individuals blowing up a building. Ridiculous link.

For your information I am a Christian and I do not share the views of Pat Robertson or many people on the so-called religious right. And I would never say things that Robertson has said about others as he has publicly. You can be insulted all you want to be, but McVeigh and others in his movement were Christians as well. Even the Klan considers themselves a Christian organization. I am not sure why you are all of sudden offended by this connection when clearly people claim all kinds of religious affiliations and do un-Christian things.

And yes there were many groups that helped people in the Katrina situation. There were numerous groups that did so. I am not sure what that has to do with anything.

Peace

[Ump Rube]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I am not sure what that has to do with anything.

If I may rephrase...

I am not sure what that has to do with umpiring.

[Kevin Finnerty]

I have decided to interpret Christianity to mean that I can have sex with 10 or 12 mistresses as long as none of them ever meet each other. It seems like a more beneficial interpretation than the kind that make me want to kill or die.

I'm not greedy. I don't need 72. And no virgins ... experience is everything.