Earrings and a ponytail.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Kevin Finnerty

You're only here once;

Again you fail to recognize that there are other religious beliefs.

[Kevin Finnerty]

I sure hope that if I do have another life, it's as a man again.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Having lived in a mid-market midwestern city (Des Moines) and a similarly sized military city (Colorado Springs), I can say definitively that the military city is more conservative than the midwestern city. In fact, I would be hard pressed to think of a midwest city of more than a quarter million that would be considered "conservative" by any measure (cultural, social, or political).

And while I've certainly met my share of liberal military members, the correlation between military service and conservative politics is quite strong.

I cannot speak for Colorado Springs or the make up of most of Iowa. But I can tell you that in Illinois, there are little towns that are very homogeneous and are small farm towns and these are not very diverse areas. And if you use voting and politics as a guide, these places are very conservative in their values and in the way they vote and the policies they support. Not to suggest that anyone in those communities are all the same, but when Obama was running for the Senate (he was from a Chicago district in the Illinois legislature) he had to convince people that have never voted Democrat to vote for him. And I am not talking about military bases or membership being the main base of these communities. I also know many military people that are not are racial minorities are not politically conservative, at least in the way they claim to vote or look at issues of public policy. Military service is not the overriding factor for all those that are members. Serving in the military might be a factor, but it is certainly not the factor to how conservative they might be.

Peace

[Adam]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I cannot speak for Colorado Springs or the make up of most of Iowa. But I can tell you that in Illinois, there are little towns that are very homogeneous and are small farm towns and these are not very diverse areas. And if you use voting and politics as a guide, these places are very conservative in their values and in the way they vote and the policies they support. Not to suggest that anyone in those communities are all the same, but when Obama was running for the Senate (he was from a Chicago district in the Illinois legislature) he had to convince people that have never voted Democrat to vote for him. And I am not talking about military bases or membership being the main base of these communities. I also know many military people that are not are racial minorities are not politically conservative, at least in the way they claim to vote or look at issues of public policy. Military service is not the overriding factor for all those that are members. Serving in the military might be a factor, but it is certainly not the factor to how conservative they might be.

Peace

That's why I qualified by saying cities of a quarter million or more. I grew up in a small town in the middle of Iowa where the politics and social mores were very conservative. I went to college in Northwest Iowa, where the politics made my small home town look like San Francisco in comparison.

I wouldn't claim to say it's "the" factor in most cases. There are a lot of things that come into play, such as religious background, the politics of your parents, union membership, income and education level, etc.

I'm not saying there's a causal relationship between military service and conservative politics; but I am saying there's a definite correlation. I would guess there is some causal relation as well, but that's based purely on anecdotal evidence rather than statistical analysis so I won't go beyond speculation on that.

And with Obama, he benefited a great deal from some Republican scandals (at various levels of Illinois politics) shortly before and during his campaign that left him with a very politically weak opponent and a general Illini distaste for the GOP. This is not to say he wouldn't have won otherwise, I think he would have, but it woudn't have been the landslide it turned out to be.

And Steve's initial point was (unspoken as it may have been) regarding metropolitan areas. I highly doubt he was comparing the politics of San Diego to the politics of Orange City, Iowa. That would be like comparing apples to baseballs.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

And Steve's initial point was (unspoken as it may have been) regarding metropolitan areas. I highly doubt he was comparing the politics of San Diego to the politics of Orange City, Iowa. That would be like comparing apples to baseballs.

Yes, you are correct. I should have phrased it "one of the most conservative large metropolitan cities." I know it doesn't compare with the redneck lifestyle and brand of conservatism over in Podunk, Iowa. We don't do lynchin's or marry our first cousins.

I was simply pointing out that San Diego is the only large city in California that boasts a conservative majority, and is reflected in our voting patterns. That is what I meant about a "sea of liberalism."

In no way did I infer or intimate that there aren't many brave, patriotic liberals. My HS assignor is a big liberal, yet was a very courageous, brave Boswain's Mate in the U.S. Navy during the Korean War. He is also one of my dear friends, who gave me my now-infamous nickname. And I wasn't always a conservative. In fact, I voted for Mondale/Ferraro in 1984. That was the last time I voted Democrat for any office higher than Dog Catcher.

[grunewar]

Posts to be eliminated and thread locked I'm almost sure.......

[Adam]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

Yes, you are correct. I should have phrased it "one of the most conservative large metropolitan cities." I know it doesn't compare with the redneck lifestyle and brand of conservatism over in Podunk, Iowa. We don't do lynchin's or marry our first cousins.

I was simply pointing out that San Diego is the only large city in California that boasts a conservative majority, and is reflected in our voting patterns. That is what I meant about a "sea of liberalism."

In no way did I infer or intimate that there aren't many brave, patriotic liberals. My HS assignor is a big liberal, yet was a very courageous, brave Boswain's Mate in the U.S. Navy during the Korean War. He is also one of my dear friends, who gave me my now-infamous nickname. And I wasn't always a conservative. In fact, I voted for Mondale/Ferraro in 1984. That was the last time I voted Democrat for any office higher than Dog Catcher.

I was 10 and working on the Mondale campaign in 1984. I voted for Bill Clinton twice and for Tom Vilsack in 1998. That was the last time for me.

And I'm offended by the Podunk comment. There were no lynchins. Cousins, OTOH.... In all seriousness, the biggest problem I saw with small towns was the general aversion to outsiders regardless of skin color or politics. I wasn't 3rd or 4th generation, so we were outsiders to that town.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

That's why I qualified by saying cities of a quarter million or more. I grew up in a small town in the middle of Iowa where the politics and social mores were very conservative. I went to college in Northwest Iowa, where the politics made my small home town look like San Francisco in comparison.

I wouldn't claim to say it's "the" factor in most cases. There are a lot of things that come into play, such as religious background, the politics of your parents, union membership, income and education level, etc.

Completely agreed.

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

I'm not saying there's a causal relationship between military service and conservative politics; but I am saying there's a definite correlation. I would guess there is some causal relation as well, but that's based purely on anecdotal evidence rather than statistical analysis so I won't go beyond speculation on that.

Agree again. And I completely agree or have similar information based on anecdotal information.

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

And with Obama, he benefited a great deal from some Republican scandals (at various levels of Illinois politics) shortly before and during his campaign that left him with a very politically weak opponent and a general Illini distaste for the GOP. This is not to say he wouldn't have won otherwise, I think he would have, but it woudn't have been the landslide it turned out to be.

He did and he didn't benefit. Obviously the scandal helped, but when Carol Moseley Braun was elected Senator, she did not care many if any southern districts in Illinois and she did not need to. There are almost as many people in urban Chicago area and surrounding counties as there are in all of that outside of that region. So yes he got more votes than Moseley Braun did, but he might have won anyway if he had northern Illinois and Cook County support.

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

And Steve's initial point was (unspoken as it may have been) regarding metropolitan areas. I highly doubt he was comparing the politics of San Diego to the politics of Orange City, Iowa. That would be like comparing apples to baseballs.

If he wasn't, then he needed to make that much clearer. And the reason I say this, is because as an African-American that works baseball in the past in very rural and all-white communities, it is kind of a shock in some cases when I show up to work a game by the reaction. And this past year I worked the State Finals in the two smallest classes of schools and I probably could hold on one hand the number of non-white players I had through all the playoff games, including the State Finals themselves. And these were involving schools that were far from metropolitan areas or even the larger areas in the state (not in every case but by far more were in very rural areas). And I know if the reaction to me which was mostly positive was seen by those that are not used to seeing a person of my color working games very often, I can only imagine the things that might be assumed by someone that is wearing a ponytail or has certain tattoos on their arm. It is just one of those things that might not be widely accepted. Now our society is changing and many of the people are exposed to more different types of people than they ever were though media sources and especially TV. So it might not be seen the same visceral reaction, but there are still standards that exist.

Peace

[Adam]

Jeff,
I agree with you on the standards of appearance, but this is bound to vary by region. For example, SD may be more politically conservative than the rest of CA, but it's still CA and I would venture to say the standards of dress are still more casual in the business world of SD than they are in Des Moines or Minneapolis or Kansas City. The individual details of these things are going to vary widely by region.

My philosophy on the appearance thing (goatees, ponytails, etc) is that you just need to do as the Romans are doing. If your particular area doesn't give a rip, then don't worry about it. If it's a problem where you live, then I'd adhere as best as possible to the unspoken local standards. Just don't be surprised to find that the hippies in CA do it differently.

[grunewar]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

As a conservative, how would you react to someone calling you a homosexual?

Better yet, as a straight person, how would you react?

SanDiegoSteve - I'm not disagreeing with you. This is the worst language I've seen on here and thought the posts would be deleted and the possibly thread locked by now. No cause for this here.

I don't mind talking points of view, upbringings, ideas, prejudices, misconceptions, and even politics - as it pertains to athletics, etc.

But, my thoughts were - it got very personal, offensive, and went in the toilet and that is usually not allowed to stay posted.

[Welpe]

Snaqs but what about background checks on officials with pony tails?

[Adam]

Originally Posted by welpe

snaqs but what about background checks on officials with pony tails? :d

rotflmao!

I think that depends on their tattoos.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Jeff,
I agree with you on the standards of appearance, but this is bound to vary by region. For example, SD may be more politically conservative than the rest of CA, but it's still CA and I would venture to say the standards of dress are still more casual in the business world of SD than they are in Des Moines or Minneapolis or Kansas City. The individual details of these things are going to vary widely by region.

My philosophy on the appearance thing (goatees, ponytails, etc) is that you just need to do as the Romans are doing. If your particular area doesn't give a rip, then don't worry about it. If it's a problem where you live, then I'd adhere as best as possible to the unspoken local standards. Just don't be surprised to find that the hippies in CA do it differently.

I think it is all about local standards or company standards in the first place. I tend to dress better than most people in professional settings because I feel I already have people trying to judge me anyway. The last thing I want someone to try to infer is that I am not professional or that I am not qualified based on how I look. That is my standard and how I approach these issues. I would never get a tattoo or have my hair in a way that is not considered professional by the most professional expectations.

I am sure CA might have D1 umpires that look different than across many parts of the country. But I would like to look like someone that could easily fit in anywhere in the country and sometimes is overly dressed in this capacity.

Peace

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by grunewar

SanDiegoSteve - I'm not disagreeing with you. This is the worst language I've seen on here and thought the posts would be deleted and the possibly thread locked by now. No cause for this here.

I don't mind talking points of view, upbringings, ideas, prejudices, misconceptions, and even politics - as it pertains to athletics, etc.

But, my thoughts were - it got very personal, offensive, and went in the toilet and that is usually not allowed to stay posted.

I think for the most part we are having a reasonable discussion here. Let us not go into name calling of others simply to make a point. Even the talk about politics in this topic has been fair and intelligent. I am not sure Steve was doing that here, but I hope we can discuss these differences without getting too personal or out of line. And sports often are shaped by society and societal issues. Certainly on what you look like and how you present yourself is apart of that. I just had my professor in a Broadcasting class just talk about that very thing and sports were not even the topic.

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

rotflmao!

I think that depends on their tattoos.

This was very funny BTW.

Peace

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I think for the most part we are having a reasonable discussion here. Let us not go into name calling of others simply to make a point. Even the talk about politics in this topic has been fair and intelligent. I am not sure Steve was doing that here, but I hope we can discuss these differences without getting too personal or out of line. And sports often are shaped by society and societal issues. Certainly on what you look like and how you present yourself is apart of that. I just had my professor in a Broadcasting class just talk about that very thing and sports were not even the topic.

I you were reading the exchange, I wasn't the one calling anyone names here, I was responding to someone characterizing me as a homosexual, and I take great offense to such personal attacks. Grunewar was agreeing with me that the offending party was way out of line.