When a crew can't reach a call...

[SanDiegoSteve]

Quick answer:

#1. Base Umpire's call all the way. Go with that.

#2. Base Umpire's call all the way. Go with that.

#3. Base Umpire's call all the way. Go with that.

PU should not poach BU's calls.

You go with who's call it was. UIC has nothing to do with judgment calls when he's not asked for input.

[Ump153]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

Quick answer:

#1. Base Umpire's call all the way. Go with that.

#2. Base Umpire's call all the way. Go with that.

#3. Base Umpire's call all the way. Go with that.

PU should not poach BU's calls.

You go with who's call it was. UIC has nothing to do with judgment calls when he's not asked for input.

When the man's right, he's right.

[TussAgee11]

Steve, as I believe I stated, I wasn't interested in explanations to the examples, I was just providing them so my real question was put in context.

And since is it BU's job to have a time play on a scoring runner? Besides the point, this thread won't get hijacked this thread won't get hijacked this thread won't get hijacked.

Could someone take a crack at my real question?

[johnnyg08]

there are times to ask for help and there are times to go w/ your call. BU is in A, it's his call and his job to call fair/foul. he's got to man-up and eat it if he screws up not throw his partner under the bus. your crew does not need to huddle on every close play...that's how your scenarios can be described. they can be prevented by having a thorough pre-game w/ your partner regarding who's going to make certain calls.

[johnnyg08]

BU has no business deciding if the run counts or not. each guy has to do his job.

[SAump]

Mechanical Jurisdiction
PU has fair/foul, etc.
BU has re-touch, etc.

Ethical Jurisdiction
There is no I in team.
The boss is always right.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by TussAgee11

Steve, as I believe I stated, I wasn't interested in explanations to the examples, I was just providing them so my real question was put in context.

And since is it BU's job to have a time play on a scoring runner? Besides the point, this thread won't get hijacked this thread won't get hijacked this thread won't get hijacked.

Could someone take a crack at my real question?

On #3, I misread it, since it is a little complicated. I thought it meant the PU was trying to overturn the call on R2 leaving early. But since it is an appeal play, why would a preceding runner be affected? The run should count. So in all three cases, your PU is jacked up.

[TussAgee11]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

On #3, I misread it, since it is a little complicated. I thought it meant the PU was trying to overturn the call on R2 leaving early. But since it is an appeal play, why would a preceding runner be affected? The run should count. So in all three cases, your PU is jacked up.

I figured you misread... no biggie. I meant for the thread to be more philosophical anyway, these were just the best examples I could think of, when crews come together to "get it right" or try to eliminate what happened because of a crew mistake.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by TussAgee11

I figured you misread... no biggie. I meant for the thread to be more philosophical anyway, these were just the best examples I could think of, when crews come together to "get it right" or try to eliminate what happened because of a crew mistake.

But the examples you gave had nothing to do with rules interpretations, they were all about judgment calls that belong to one umpire or another. I'm not going to huddle or cuddle or whatever else they are calling it these days on a call that I'm positive that I got right, and was my call to start with. A screamer at BU's feet in A....still his call. Line drive to F4 while in the infield, still BU's call. These plays don't get a review in my games. I get the call right and don't allow for 2nd guessing. If they want to argue my call, fine. But I'm not running for help on a judgment call that belonged to me and me only.

Now if I were to totally miss making the call at all, as happened once when I was pretty new to umpiring, then fine, the other ump can step right in there. While working in A on a ball that was a close fair/foul over the base, I froze like a deer in the headlights and my partner saw this and immediately called, "Foul."

I'm not talking about unsure about a call and not making one, or totally spacing out and not making the call. I'm only talking about calls that I actually call that belong to me. Those are not up for discussion.

[youngump]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

But the examples you gave had nothing to do with rules interpretations, they were all about judgment calls that belong to one umpire or another. I'm not going to huddle or cuddle or whatever else they are calling it these days on a call that I'm positive that I got right, and was my call to start with. A screamer at BU's feet in A....still his call. Line drive to F4 while in the infield, still BU's call. These plays don't get a review in my games. I get the call right and don't allow for 2nd guessing. If they want to argue my call, fine. But I'm not running for help on a judgment call that belonged to me and me only.

Now if I were to totally miss making the call at all, as happened once when I was pretty new to umpiring, then fine, the other ump can step right in there. While working in A on a ball that was a close fair/foul over the base, I froze like a deer in the headlights and my partner saw this and immediately called, "Foul."

I'm not talking about unsure about a call and not making one, or totally spacing out and not making the call. I'm only talking about calls that I actually call that belong to me. Those are not up for discussion.

Depends on how you read the one about the appeal. If the PU was not counting it because he was poaching the timing play, then sure. But if it's because he was treating the touch as a force instead of an appeal, then it's a rules problem.
________
Buy Glass Bongs

[jicecone]

Each new individual you work with, can be a new experience and sometimes you have to just go with the flow.

Probably my 4th year officiatiing I had the pleasure of working a Connie Mack game (17-18yr) with the worlds greatest umpire on this earth. He not only let me know this in our pre-game but even the coaches during the plate conference. He had my butt covered but, I had to do the plate because I was the rookie. OK He also implied that at the plate conference and stated that any discussions would be handled by him. Coaches said sure thing.

After each of the first two innings he felt it was necessary to come in and comment about my zone and mechanics because, well he was the worlds greatest. (Oh, and by the way did I tell you about the time he attented Jack Dainels Umpiring School in Florida) or (How about the time he got called to do the BIG boys but, had to turn it down because of other commitments).

Well, in the third inning there was a runner on second and 1 out. Ball is hit to shortstop and play is at first. I see the runner break for third and yell "I got three." Ball arrives to F5, runner slides and tag is made somewhere clearly above the belt, and I give my best rookie call of the game "SAFE".

Well, wouldnt you know the worlds greatest umpire decided he also had opinion about the play (Why not, he had an opinion about everything else.) and echoed a big "OUT". Then he followed it up with, "I got this call and he is out." I looked over to him and at the same time saw the HC coming out from the duggout and figured hey, I am going to let the worlds greatest umpire take care of this, and I did. Of course he had to throw out the HC when he implied that I might be the Rookie but at least I could see better than him. Oh and I also found out that he blew the call at first too but he handled explaining that away too.

So now the worlds greaest umpire got things calmed down and was ready to go. "Play", I say in my rookie voice. 2nd pitch and R1 takes off for 2nd base, Here's the pitch and the throw and PLUNK, down goes the worlds greatest umpire. He turned his back on the throw and the rookie had to finish the game by hisself.

Things pretty much went smoothly from there but, I will NEVER EVER forget working with the WORLDS GREATEST UMPIRE. (True story)

[RPatrino]

I think SAUmp was heading down the right track. In every situation there is an umpire that has responsiblility to make the call. However, the responsible umpire may not have the best angle or view to make the correct call, for many reasons. It is a crew responsiblility to get the call right, and if after discussion there is still a no agreement, the UIC or crew chief must make the call.

To answer Tuss's question, I have had 'veteran' partners try to poach my calls as the PU, or try to take control of the game. I simply tell them, 'thanks for the help, but let me do my job, you do your's', and that works. I have also had less experienced partners, who have mistakingly made calls that were mine. In this case I leave no doubt in anyones mind who's call it was and what the call will be.

[NFump]

Originally Posted by RPatrino

I think SAUmp was heading down the right track.

Is this even possible?