Passing lead runner

[Scottydog]

Strange but true and I am not sure of ruling.

Middle school scrimmage again High school team. Homeschool league with brothers on each team.

Runner on first (new MS player), older player hits a homerun. Then takes off around the bases and passes the lead runner without even noticing. Stops short of home plate after bench yells to him to wait for lead runner.

I was calling game (new this year to umiring and my son plays so it was a favor anyway). I was not sure what the call should be. Everyone agreed there should be an out (3rd out) and they changed sides. Since it was all in fun and a scrimmage, we made no deal about it.

Can someone give me guidance on this for real games. Part of my indecision is the ball is now GONE (homerun) so no quick throw back to a bag. We of course had other balls...

[Rich Ives]

Originally Posted by Scottydog

Strange but true and I am not sure of ruling.

Middle school scrimmage again High school team. Homeschool league with brothers on each team.

Runner on first (new MS player), older player hits a homerun. Then takes off around the bases and passes the lead runner without even noticing. Stops short of home plate after bench yells to him to wait for lead runner.

I was calling game (new this year to umiring and my son plays so it was a favor anyway). I was not sure what the call should be. Everyone agreed there should be an out (3rd out) and they changed sides. Since it was all in fun and a scrimmage, we made no deal about it.

Can someone give me guidance on this for real games. Part of my indecision is the ball is now GONE (homerun) so no quick throw back to a bag. We of course had other balls...

The batter is out foor passing the baserunner.

Whenever a trail runner ends up physically ahead of a lead runner the trail runner is out - even if the lead runner is at fault.

[UmpTTS43]

In OBR, the out is recorded at the time of passing. If it results in the third out, only the runs that scored prior to the passing are scored.

In FED ball, the out is again recorded at the time of passing. On any thing other than a HR, only the runs that scored prior to the passing score. On a HR, all other runners are allowed to score due to the HR being a "base award" regardless if the passing was the third out or not. I believe this is the case. I'm sure someone will give you the correct ruling if I am mistaken.

[tjones1]

Fed: If the batter-runner passes a runner in the base path, all runs, except the batter-runner, score unless there is another baserunning infraction.

NCAA: Same as OBR. With fewer than two out all other runners score. If the hitter is the violating runner and is the 3rd out, only runners who crossed the plate before his out will score - timing play.

[mbyron]

Fed Case Play:

8.4.2 SITUATION N: The bases are loaded with one out. B5 hits a home run
over the fence. However, he passes R3 after rounding first. R3 misses second
base while advancing to home. RULING: B5 is out at the point he passes R3.
Upon proper defensive appeal, R3 is called out at the end of playing action by the
umpire. Two runs score. B5, being declared out for passing R3, removed the
force situation on R3 at second base.

[zm1283]

I like the NCAA/OBR rule a lot better in this situation.

In FED, what if it's not the BR that does the passing? What if R1 passes R2? If there is a R3, does he score in that situation also? I'm thinking not if there are two outs since it's a force?

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by zm1283

I like the NCAA/OBR rule a lot better in this situation.

In FED, what if it's not the BR that does the passing? What if R1 passes R2? If there is a R3, does he score in that situation also? I'm thinking not if there are two outs since it's a force?

Yes -- all runners "ahead of" the runner who is the third out score. So, in your example, R2 and R3 score. R1 doesn't score because he made the third out, and BR doesn't score because he was "behind" the runner who made the thrid out.

I think this was an "unannounced" change about 3 years ago.

It's not a force -- the "passing" has to happen after the passing runner has advanced a base.

[TussAgee11]

R1 is red, BR is yellow.

BR is farther from 2B than R1. But, he is farther along the baseline from a perpendicular standpoint.

OBR 7.08 A runner is out when - (h) He passes a preceding runner before such runner is out;

Fed language is similarly vague in this regard, with an exception for an obstructed preceeding runner.

Can anyone provide a definition for "pass"? Its obviously nitpicky, but hey, its the end of the summer.

My guess would be a pass for the diagram above.

[ozzy6900]

Originally Posted by TussAgee11

........... Can anyone provide a definition for "pass"? ........

When I say the BR passed R1, that is when the pass took place! It's completely relative, my dear Watson.