3-man: Runner on 1st

[mick]

If a runner is on first base with any combination of other runners, what philosophy keeps U1 in Position A for the starting position? What's going to happen on 1B?

Thanks.


There are no dumb questions, only dumb people.

[UmpJM]

mick,

Pick off attempt at 1B.

JM

[GA Umpire]

You are in a far better position to call the pick off attempt. Runner isn't shielding with his slide of where his feet or hands are when tagged.

Also, in better position for the play at 1B on the batter such as a DP or whatever play happens there. Better position to see any swipe tags or pulled foot off the base.

To me, it is just a better position to see much more than being in B position.

[mick]

Originally Posted by UmpJM (nee CoachJM)

mick,

Pick off attempt at 1B.

JM

Originally Posted by GA Umpire

You are in a far better position to call the pick off attempt. Runner isn't shielding with his slide of where his feet or hands are when tagged.

Also, in better position for the play at 1B on the batter such as a DP or whatever play happens there. Better position to see any swipe tags or pulled foot off the base.

To me, it is just a better position to see much more than being in B position.

I reckon a lot of people feel that way.
I understand the better view of a pick-off play at first, although I do not remember the last time I've seen that with R1 and R2 (and R3).

Seems like, with almost any play (hit-n-run, steal, pass ball) involving a runner going to 3B or 2b, by starting in Position A, U1 is effectively locked out, and an unnecessary burden is put on U3 (who has 2B and 3B) and PU who has 3B and Home), for want of a good view at a fanciful pick-off attempt at 1B.

Thanks.

PS EDIT to GA Umpire: Saturday night I had dinner on Lake Superior with friends from Marietta, GA. They were wearing coats.

[UmpJM]

mick,

Actually, the U1 is not "locked out". He will come into the infield on a clean base hit to the outfield and will have any play on the BR going into 2B or at 1B.

A is about the only position on the field where a BU can get a decent look at whether the F1's free foot crossed the back plane of the rubber and/or whether his step to 1B was "direct" (enough) on the pick-off to 1B.

I see pick-off attempts at 1B fairly often with R1 and R3.

JM

[Ump153]

Originally Posted by mick

I reckon a lot of people feel that way.
I understand the better view of a pick-off play at first, although I do not remember the last time I've seen that with R1 and R2 (and R3).

Seems like, with almost any play (hit-n-run, steal, pass ball) involving a runner going to 3B or 2b, by starting in Position A, U1 is effectively locked out, and an unnecessary burden is put on U3 (who has 2B and 3B) and PU who has 3B and Home), for want of a good view at a fanciful pick-off attempt at 1B.

Thanks.

And you would do what...put two umpires inside?

Don't forget, U1 has responsiblity for the B/R as well as R1. "A" is the perfect STARTING point.

[GA Umpire]

Originally Posted by mick

ps edit to ga umpire: Saturday night i had dinner on lake superior with friends from marietta, ga. They were wearing coats.

lol

[johnnyg08]

There is a 3 man mechanic in PBUC that in an "obvious" bunt situation w/ R1,R2 that you move 1BU into B and move 3BU into D. It's an optional mechanic though.

[JR12]

We use that in only this situation you described. It's also nice if they decide to double steal.

[Ump153]

Originally Posted by johnnyg08

There is a 3 man mechanic in PBUC that in an "obvious" bunt situation w/ R1,R2 that you move 1BU into B and move 3BU into D. It's an optional mechanic though.

Yep. But you will note there is still just one umpire inside.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by mick

I reckon a lot of people feel that way.
I understand the better view of a pick-off play at first, although I do not remember the last time I've seen that with R1 and R2 (and R3).

Seems like, with almost any play (hit-n-run, steal, pass ball) involving a runner going to 3B or 2b, by starting in Position A, U1 is effectively locked out, and an unnecessary burden is put on U3 (who has 2B and 3B) and PU who has 3B and Home), for want of a good view at a fanciful pick-off attempt at 1B.

Thanks.

PS EDIT to GA Umpire: Saturday night I had dinner on Lake Superior with friends from Marietta, GA. They were wearing coats.

R1+R2 and bases loaded is a reverse rotation where U1 will take the BR to second base. You can come inside or you can take the BR to second from the outside (which in 4-man is the mechanic the ML umpires have been using on the slide).

So it's still one runner, one umpire for the most part, unless R2 stops at third.

With U1 in A you never have one umpire calling both halves of a DP and you also have an umpire in A for the pickoff and the whacker at first.

[LDUB]

Originally Posted by mick

Seems like, with almost any play (hit-n-run, steal, pass ball) involving a runner going to 3B or 2b, by starting in Position A, U1 is effectively locked out, and an unnecessary burden is put on U3 (who has 2B and 3B) and PU who has 3B and Home), for want of a good view at a fanciful pick-off attempt at 1B.

You don't want U1 having to do double play footwork and making both calls.

[mick]

Originally Posted by Ump153

And you would do what...put two umpires inside?

Don't forget, U1 has responsiblity for the B/R as well as R1. "A" is the perfect STARTING point.

No, I wouldn't have two umps inside. Too crowded.

I've just never clearly understood the need for U1 and R1 to be married at 1B.

[Ump153]

Originally Posted by mick

No, I wouldn't have two umps inside. Too crowded.

I've just never clearly understood the need for U1 and R1 to be married at 1B.

If you still don't understand after this thread...well, stick with two man..

[mick]

Originally Posted by LDUB

You don't want U1 having to do double play footwork and making both calls.

We do it all the time working 2-Man, though, eh?