Marty Foster's call at 3rd base today

[Rich Ives]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

Rich, that might be true in your neck of the woods, but the coaches here have always wanted that call to go to the defense, and nobody argues the call. It's the way it's always been done. Why fix something that ain't broken? The coaches want that call on defense, so they aren't going to say anything when it doesn't go their way on offense.

I'll bet you a bunch that the reason they want the call to go that way is because the umpires have always called it that way - not because they think it's right. They want the expected call only because they've been taught to expect it.

Now that replay is showing the "real" situation you're stuck. Now they know what the call should have been.

Dug your own grave.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by Rich Ives

I'll bet you a bunch that the reason they want the call to go that way is because the umpires have always called it that way - not because they think it's right. They want the expected call only because they've been taught to expect it.

Yeah, I've actually had long-time, well respected varsity coaches come out and argue with me when I called a runner safe in such situations. They would, to a man, tell me in no uncertain terms that they were paying me to make that call, and what the hell would ever make me call that runner safe, etc. After a few of those, I decided early in my career to just call the runner out like I had been taught, and not insist on a tag when the ball beats the runner by a large margin.

[RogersUmp]

It's not unlike the sweeping in-the-vacinity touch of 2B on a DP. No one ever argues that one because it's always expected to be called a DP.

[umpjong]

The television has certainly changed the grand ole game...

[TussAgee11]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

Yeah, I've actually had long-time, well respected varsity coaches come out and argue with me when I called a runner safe in such situations. They would, to a man, tell me in no uncertain terms that they were paying me to make that call, and what the hell would ever make me call that runner safe, etc. After a few of those, I decided early in my career to just call the runner out like I had been taught, and not insist on a tag when the ball beats the runner by a large margin.

Steve:

I'm wondering how this quote does not contradict your statements in other threads where you accused others of looking for outs when there were none there so they could get home quicker.

Could you clarify how these two seemingly opposite viewpoints coincide?

Thanks!

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by TussAgee11

Steve:

I'm wondering how this quote does not contradict your statements in other threads where you accused others of looking for outs when there were none there so they could get home quicker.

Could you clarify how these two seemingly opposite viewpoints coincide?

Thanks!

Comparing apples and oranges again I see. Let me clarify this: I don't make the "expected call" like the Jeter call to go home quicker. I make it because the coaches and players don't want to get their runners and fielders injured by a really hard slide or tag. That is 180° different from calling a runner out who got pushed intentionally and forcefully off of his base by a coniving, cheating infielder trying to get a cheap double play. I never call outs to speed up the game. I pray for outs, but don't make artificial ones.

[TussAgee11]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

I never call outs to speed up the game. I pray for outs, but don't make artificial ones.

Listen, we're going to disagree, again.

To me, I have the runner out if the tag is there 90% of the time as well. But if I see the tag very noticably miss, he's safe.

I agree that coaches / players / MLB doesn't want to see hands getting beaten up by a fielder staying in there to make a tag. But he can't ole it either and expect an out. This is a case of out until proven safe IMO, but not automatic out.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by TussAgee11

Listen, we're going to disagree, again.

To me, I have the runner out if the tag is there 90% of the time as well. But if I see the tag very noticably miss, he's safe.

I agree that coaches / players / MLB doesn't want to see hands getting beaten up by a fielder staying in there to make a tag. But he can't ole it either and expect an out. This is a case of out until proven safe IMO, but not automatic out.

I thought the fielder laid that glove right down in front of the base for quite a sufficiently long period of time. He didn' "ole" it, he put a tag down in front of a base and held it there until Jeter slid into the base. That's an out to me. But hell, then again, I don't have instant replay at my games to replay it over and over.

[David B]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

I thought the fielder laid that glove right down in front of the base for quite a sufficiently long period of time. He didn' "ole" it, he put a tag down in front of a base and held it there until Jeter slid into the base. That's an out to me. But hell, then again, I don't have instant replay at my games to replay it over and over.

He's out all day and everyday in my games also. Been that way for about 15 years now and amazing I never get any grief about these calls. When I used to (my first 15 years) make these type of calls, it always ended up in an ejection or big argument.

Make the expected call and move on with the game. If Jeter wants to complain, then the next time he makes a similiar play, I call the runner safe.

If he complains, I would just remind him, "remember the other day in ..."

He would get over it pretty quick then I am for certain. Pro players want that call because it keeps them away from injury. The longer they have to stay in the play, the more chance of a freak injury, jamming the wrist, a cleat etc.,


Thanks
David

[jicecone]

Originally Posted by TussAgee11

. But if I see the tag very noticably miss, he's safe.

I agree Tuss but, this was anything but "Noticably Missed" at normal speed.

[DG]

Amazing how chance works. Last night ball gets away from F2 but only slightly, R2 goes for 3B, ball beats him by a half yard, F5 puts the glove down, R2 slides in and I bang him out. Not a peep from anyone, including HC standing in the 3b box.

As I walk away I am thinking F5 may not have gotten the glove on him. Maybe I am thinking this because of this thread, don't know, but I do know there was not a peep from anyone.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by DG

Amazing how chance works. Last night ball gets away from F2 but only slightly, R2 goes for 3B, ball beats him by a half yard, F5 puts the glove down, R2 slides in and I bang him out. Not a peep from anyone, including HC standing in the 3b box.

As I walk away I am thinking F5 may not have gotten the glove on him. Maybe I am thinking this because of this thread, don't know, but I do know there was not a peep from anyone.

I had the other side of this situation over the weekend. Batter hits a shot in the gap and tries for 3. The throw comes in while he's 15 feet from 3B, and F5 puts his glove down and holds it there. The BR's foot hits glove and wrist: no spiking, but he'd broken that wrist before and had to leave the game.

The ball came out, and my timing was impeccable, so the call was easy.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by DG

As I walk away I am thinking F5 may not have gotten the glove on him.

There's a difference between "thinking F5 MAY NOT have gotten a glove on him" and SEEING something other than a straight slide in and a missed tag.

I didn't see the OP, so I can't comment on what happened there. Maybe it was just missed. Maybe the umpire didn't expect the type of slide ("surprise is the umpire's worst enemy"), so he had poor timing. Maybe he mis-spoke (or was mis-heard).

For me, I'll look only as closely as I have to. If the ball is there, and the tag is down, it's up to the runner to convince me that the tag was missed by doing something other than sliding straight in and making me see the missed tag. Some runners have done that. Some have not.