Obstruction situation

[zm1283]

This happened several weeks ago, but it got me thinking, as I have heard differing opinions on it.

Fed rules, and it is what most would call a Junior Legion game. (13-14 year olds) R1, batter hits a single to right center. After R1 rounds second, F6 clearly obstructs him (No doubter, everyone in the park knew it). R1 stops running because he was obstructed and realizes he won't make it to third and then returns toward second base. As that happens, the ball has been thrown back in and the B/R gets in a run down between first and second. As the run down starts, R1, who had gone back to second, takes off for third and is thrown out there. The B/R ends up on second.

We awarded R1 third because of the obstruction. We felt that he would have reached third if not for being obstructed by F6. I've heard other opinions that because R1 returned to second base, he left himself open to be put out, especially since the B/R got into a run down.

Did we screw it up or not?

[Matt]

Originally Posted by zm1283

We awarded R1 third because of the obstruction. We felt that he would have reached third if not for being obstructed by F6. I've heard other opinions that because R1 returned to second base, he left himself open to be put out, especially since the B/R got into a run down.

Did we screw it up or not?

Nope, given your judgement.

[mbyron]

You called it correctly. In FED OBS is all "type B," which permits the defense to make outs against other runners. So you were right to let play continue when the defense played on BR.

R1 is going to be protected into 3B, no matter whether he tries for 3B or returns to 2B. As the play developed, he was thrown out at 3B anyway, and you had to enforce the OBS. You nullified that out, and it doesn't matter that there was intervening play.

To call it otherwise would reward the defense for the OBS and defeat the purpose of allowing play to continue. Had he advanced past 3B and been thrown out returning, that out would have stood, since he had acquired the base to which you were protecting him.

Any out made by the BR on this play would have stood. If the batter had clearly doubled and R1 been held up at 2B, so that the BR had to stop and was thrown out going back to 1B, you might nullify that out. But that's a different play.

Good enforcement.

[Fritz]

On the subject of OBS, had a non-call last night that the OC argued (and PU, my partner tried to overrule me, kind of, but that is another story).

14U, OBR, R2, I'm BU in C. Batter doubles to left center. F4 had come into the infield on the play and then was moving to cover 2nd, BR is heading into 2nd as the throw is coming into F6 - who is standing about 20' away from 2B in line with F7. I see that BR is slowing up but he notices that F4 is coming toward the base at the same time and there might be contact. So BR adjusts his path slightly (a step or so) to touch centerfield edge of the base and miss F4. The problem is F4 saw what was going to happen and stopped advancing so he wouldn't be in BR's way. He never actually got in BR's path and there was no contact as the runner cut in front of F4 and touched the base.

I made no call at all since nothing happened and no one was advancing. OC wanted OBS called and his runner put at 3rd. I said there wasn't actually OBS; his runner adjusted his path because he THOUGHT F4 was going to be in his way, but F4 stopped to prevent that so it wasn't the defense's fault that the runner adjusted anyway. And besides, the runner had no intention of advancing past 2nd, so he wasn't going to get an extra base out of it.

OC seemed to accept that but was curious if you had other thoughts. Realize this might be a HTBT, but appreciate feedback.

[Ump Rube]

Originally Posted by Fritz

On the subject of OBS, had a non-call last night that the OC argued (and PU, my partner tried to overrule me, kind of, but that is another story).

14U, OBR, R2, I'm BU in C. Batter doubles to left center. F4 had come into the infield on the play and then was moving to cover 2nd, BR is heading into 2nd as the throw is coming into F6 - who is standing about 20' away from 2B in line with F7. I see that BR is slowing up but he notices that F4 is coming toward the base at the same time and there might be contact. So BR adjusts his path slightly (a step or so) to touch centerfield edge of the base and miss F4. The problem is F4 saw what was going to happen and stopped advancing so he wouldn't be in BR's way. He never actually got in BR's path and there was no contact as the runner cut in front of F4 and touched the base.

I made no call at all since nothing happened and no one was advancing. OC wanted OBS called and his runner put at 3rd. I said there wasn't actually OBS; his runner adjusted his path because he THOUGHT F4 was going to be in his way, but F4 stopped to prevent that so it wasn't the defense's fault that the runner adjusted anyway. And besides, the runner had no intention of advancing past 2nd, so he wasn't going to get an extra base out of it.

OC seemed to accept that but was curious if you had other thoughts. Realize this might be a HTBT, but appreciate feedback.

Everything seems good to me. Even if you did want to call it OBS it happened between 1B/2B and in your own judgment the B/R was going to stop at 2B, so no further awards would be made.

[aceholleran]

Originally Posted by Fritz

On the subject of OBS, had a non-call last night that the OC argued (and PU, my partner tried to overrule me, kind of, but that is another story).

14U, OBR, R2, I'm BU in C. Batter doubles to left center. F4 had come into the infield on the play and then was moving to cover 2nd, BR is heading into 2nd as the throw is coming into F6 - who is standing about 20' away from 2B in line with F7. I see that BR is slowing up but he notices that F4 is coming toward the base at the same time and there might be contact. So BR adjusts his path slightly (a step or so) to touch centerfield edge of the base and miss F4. The problem is F4 saw what was going to happen and stopped advancing so he wouldn't be in BR's way. He never actually got in BR's path and there was no contact as the runner cut in front of F4 and touched the base.

I made no call at all since nothing happened and no one was advancing. OC wanted OBS called and his runner put at 3rd. I said there wasn't actually OBS; his runner adjusted his path because he THOUGHT F4 was going to be in his way, but F4 stopped to prevent that so it wasn't the defense's fault that the runner adjusted anyway. And besides, the runner had no intention of advancing past 2nd, so he wasn't going to get an extra base out of it.

OC seemed to accept that but was curious if you had other thoughts. Realize this might be a HTBT, but appreciate feedback.

I see no OBS here because there's no play at 2B. No way B/R gets 3B. NOW, if there is an imminent tag at 2B by F6, I MIGHT be protecting B/R into that bag. As you said, HTBT.

ace in CT

[Matt]

Originally Posted by aceholleran

I see no OBS here because there's no play at 2B. No way B/R gets 3B. NOW, if there is an imminent tag at 2B by F6, I MIGHT be protecting B/R into that bag. As you said, HTBT.

ace in CT

Whether there's a play or not is irrelevant to whether there's OBS or not. Either you have it or you don't.

[Fritz]

Originally Posted by Matt

Whether there's a play or not is irrelevant to whether there's OBS or not. Either you have it or you don't.

No imminent tag, F6 was in short left, but as pointed out, that part of the sitch is irrelevant. I just had a problem with the coach wanting OBS because his runner changed his route when he thought F4 was going to be in his way even though that ended up not being the case. He argued that the impending possible contact caused his runner to alter his path and thus it was OBS.

Oh, and the rest of the story is that my partner "comes to my aid" about the time I have the OC heading back to the dugout to inform the coach that he (the PU) had an OBS call on this but wasn't giving the runner 3rd. Umm, partner, no one asked you and now you just contradicted my call. OC of course now saw reason to continue his argument with the PU. I was so ticked I walked off and back to my C position trying to breathe slowly and count to 1,000 to stop from ripping my partner a new one.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by Fritz

No imminent tag, F6 was in short left, but as pointed out, that part of the sitch is irrelevant. I just had a problem with the coach wanting OBS because his runner changed his route when he thought F4 was going to be in his way even though that ended up not being the case. He argued that the impending possible contact caused his runner to alter his path and thus it was OBS.

Oh, and the rest of the story is that my partner "comes to my aid" about the time I have the OC heading back to the dugout to inform the coach that he (the PU) had an OBS call on this but wasn't giving the runner 3rd. Umm, partner, no one asked you and now you just contradicted my call. OC of course now saw reason to continue his argument with the PU. I was so ticked I walked off and back to my C position trying to breathe slowly and count to 1,000 to stop from ripping my partner a new one.

Not to excuse your partner, who clearly stepped all over your call without invitation, but even if it had been obstruction on this play, the runner would have only gotten 2nd base, not 3rd, since in OBR, there has to be a play being made to get the automatic extra base. In this case, the runner was not going to advance, so even with OBS, he gets 2nd base.

So, your partner threw you under the bus, but had it been his call, and he called it obstruction, at least he would have gotten the base award right!