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Sun Jan 09, 2005, 06:55pm
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R1 on 2nd, R2 on 1st, F2 attempts to pick R2 off. F3
Obstructs R2 diving back into 1B, tag is made before R2 can get to 1B. F3 immediately throws the ball to F5 to try and get R1 attempting to advance to 3rd. R1 is tagged out on the play. How many outs?
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glen _______________________________ "Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover." --Mark Twain. 
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Mon Jan 10, 2005, 07:21am
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Quote:
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The bat issue in softball is as much about liability, insurance and litigation as it is about competition, inflated egos and softball.
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Mon Jan 10, 2005, 10:12am
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Quote:
 The previous two posters were correct in that the instant an obstructed runner is tagged "out," the ball becomes dead immediately. Therefore, there can be no subsequent play since the ball is dead.
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Scott It's a small world, but I wouldn't want to have to paint it.
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Mon Jan 10, 2005, 11:07am
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OK I'll buy that.
Now what if R2 is never tagged and never reaches 1st when returning (R1 dives in the dirt but comes up short, F3 dosn't apply the tag). R1 is put out trying to advance and R2 is subsequently put out trying to advance as well. I'm just trying to change the timing of the play.
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Mon Jan 10, 2005, 11:48am
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I believe...
...I am dancing without a net here because my rule book is 30 miles away from me...but doesn't the rule book say the ball is dead once a play is made on the obstructed runner?
Trepidatiously,
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John An ucking fidiot
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Mon Jan 10, 2005, 01:04pm
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Re: I believe...
Quote:
The rule says, "If the OBSTD runner is put out prior to reaching the base which would have been reached had there not been OBS, a dead ball is called." In case presented, 1st base would have been the base R2 was protected to. Kevin's play would come under the change to the OBS Rule. Now what if R2 is never tagged and never reaches 1st when returning (R1 dives in the dirt but comes up short, F3 dosn't apply the tag). R1 is put out trying to advance and R2 is subsequently put out trying to advance as well. Under the change, when an OBSTD runner, after the OBS, safely obtains the base they would have been awarded, [1st], in the umpires judgment, had there been no OBS and there is a subsequent play on a different runner, [the throw to get R1 at 3rd], the OBSTD runner is no longer protected between the two bases where they were OBSTRD and may be put out. In my opinion a runner attempting to get back to 1st on a pickoff is only protected to 1st. Just my personal read on this.
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glen _______________________________ "Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover." --Mark Twain.
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Mon Jan 10, 2005, 03:30pm
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Glen, the runner is protected BETWEEN the bases she is when obstructed. Say the actions of the fielder caused her to panic and run to 2nd - she's still protected.
Now - you don't have to AWARD second (and I wouldn't in this case), but you do have to protect her.
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Mon Jan 10, 2005, 03:40pm
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Quote:
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Scott It's a small world, but I wouldn't want to have to paint it.
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Mon Jan 10, 2005, 03:48pm
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Mccrowder, not anymore, Glen is right
straight from the fed rule book, page 62 Rule 8-4-3b1 Exception (1) when an obstructed runner after the obstruction, safely obtains or returns to the base she would have been awarded, in the umpire's judgment, had there been no obstruction and there is a subsequent play on a different runner, the obstructed runner is no longer protected between the bases where she was obstructed runner is no longer protected between the bases where she was obstructed and may be put out.
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John
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Mon Jan 10, 2005, 06:20pm
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Glen:
except KJ's dad says R1 is safe at first and then is tagged out going to 2nd and THEN the play is made on R2 going to 3rd. In this case, R1 is still protected when going to 2nd and would be awarded 1st base because the rule states that "a subsequent play on a different runner, the obstructed runner is no longer protected between the bases where she was obstructed runner is no longer protected between the bases where she was obstructed and may be put out". In KJ's dads case, there was no subsequent play made before R1 was tagged out, it was made after R1 was tagged out.
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Mon Jan 10, 2005, 10:50pm
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Whoooa - let's go back to the original situation. Nobody ever stated what to do with R1?
"R1 on 2nd, R2 on 1st, F2 attempts to pick R2 off. F3 Obstructs R2 diving back into 1B, tag is made before R2 can get to 1B. F3 immediately throws the ball to F5 to try and get R1 attempting to advance to 3rd. R1 is tagged out on the play." I believe the correct mechanic, when R2 is tagged while short of the base, is to call Dead Ball and immediately turn to find R2. Then send R2 to a base using the 51/49 rule of thumb (more that half way, send to next base. Less than halfway, return to last base). In the above scenario, if R2 was tagged out very quickly, then I assume that she was probably more than halfway to 3B when you killed the play. Am I correct in placing her at 3B? Or would you return her to 2B? WMB
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Tue Jan 11, 2005, 01:23am
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WMB,
Personally I am sending R1 back to 2nd. Nothing can happend once dead ball called. A snap throw to attempt the pick-off, and immediate tag, would not allow R1 anything. Dead Ball, back to 2nd. JMHO,
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glen _______________________________ "Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover." --Mark Twain.
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Tue Jan 11, 2005, 01:47am
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Quote:
Now what if R2 is never tagged and never reaches 1st when returning (R1 dives in the dirt but comes up short, F3 dosn't apply the tag). R1 is put out trying to advance and R2 is subsequently put out trying to advance as well. Why is R1 diving in the dirt with F3 attempting the tag. R1 was on 2nd the pickoff attempt was on R2 at 1B. Just appears to me that KJ got runners confused in his post.
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glen _______________________________ "Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover." --Mark Twain.
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