Set position stop

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

According to Evan's balk video -- the hands finish moving down before the leg begins moving up.

This is how I was taught way back when. Must have gotten that info from similar sources as Mr. Evans did.

[DG]

Looks ok to me.

[JR12]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

I found it, although it wasn't easy.

Borderline, my a$$. In the "real world" this is clearly a no-stop balk. They simply don't call that in the Major Leagues anymore.

Thank you! I was afraid to say that, thought I might get jumped on!

[Kevin Finnerty]

I was watching Game 1 of the 1968 Series, and Bob Gibson balked constantly on the way to his 17-K masterpiece. He didn't need to throw too many pitches from the stretch, but he balked on virtually every one.

[umpjim]

I'm seeing a lot of that double stop stuff. Watched it in the CWS. So far nobody is testing it by stealing on the first move after the first stop so if nobody complains then I guess it's not called.

[Ump153]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

This is how I was taught way back when. Must have gotten that info from similar sources as Mr. Evans did.

Doubtful.

[Rich Ives]

Originally Posted by Kevin Finnerty

I was watching Game 1 of the 1968 Series, and Bob Gibson balked constantly on the way to his 17-K masterpiece. He didn't need to throw too many pitches from the stretch, but he balked on virtually every one.

The requirement to stop wasn't added until 1950. At that time the rule required a stop of at least one second.

The one second part was removed in 1964.

Thus, in 1968 a change of direction was considerd to be a stop.
Gibson was legal.

The "discernable stop" wasn't added until 1988.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by Ump153

Doubtful.

What do you mean, doubtful? I learned how to umpire from pro school grads, MiLB and MLB umpires. So I believe those would be similar to Jim Evans' sources, as he learned from professionals as well. You shouldn't make smart as$ comments when you don't know WTF you're talking about.

[bobbybanaduck]

the no stop balk is generally only called in pro ball if the pitcher is gaining an advantage...meaning it is a running situation and the runner(s) would be put at a disadvantage by the picther not coming to a hard set. it is not a running situation when the bases are full, which was the case in the video referenced.

[JR12]

Originally Posted by bobbybanaduck

the no stop balk is generally only called in pro ball if the pitcher is gaining an advantage...meaning it is a running situation and the runner(s) would be put at a disadvantage by the picther not coming to a hard set. it is not a running situation when the bases are full, which was the case in the video referenced.

And what Ump wants to Balk in the winning run?

[Ump153]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

What do you mean, doubtful? I learned how to umpire from pro school grads, MiLB and MLB umpires. So I believe those would be similar to Jim Evans' sources, as he learned from professionals as well. You shouldn't make smart as$ comments when you don't know WTF you're talking about.

So because you "learned to umpire from proschool grads, etc" that means you had the sources Evans had? Nope. At best you may have learned from those who learned from him.

I know that the sources Jim relied on when formulating his interpretations didn't include anyone you had access to. That's not smart a$$, that's a fact.

[johnnyg08]

Originally Posted by JR12

And what Ump wants to Balk in the winning run?

probably not many of us, but we're interested in making the correct call, not necessarily when the violation occurs.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by Ump153

So because you "learned to umpire from proschool grads, etc" that means you had the sources Evans had? Nope. At best you may have learned from those who learned from him.

I know that the sources Jim relied on when formulating his interpretations didn't include anyone you had access to. That's not smart a$$, that's a fact.

First off, I said "similar" sources, not "identical" sources. Learn to read. I didn't learn from people who learned from him, I learned LONG before Jim Evans even dreamed of having an umpire school or any balk video. The people I learned from are the people that Jim Evans worked with and went to umpire school with.

Secondly, I had access to Paul Runge, Doug Harvey and Mike Winters. I've also umpired with Mike and Ray DiMuro as well as Brian Runge, not to mention the tons of MiLB umpires I've had the pleasure of calling some games with. When I was coming up, our association had as guest speakers John Kibler, Ed Runge, Shag Crawford, Emmit Ashford, Eric Gregg and several other top-level officials. These people did not attend Jim Evans Umpire Academy.

[Ump153]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

First off, I said "similar" sources, not "identical" sources. Learn to read. I didn't learn from people who learned from him, I learned LONG before Jim Evans even dreamed of having an umpire school or any balk video. The people I learned from are the people that Jim Evans worked with and went to umpire school with.

Secondly, I had access to Paul Runge, Doug Harvey and Mike Winters. I've also umpired with Mike and Ray DiMuro as well as Brian Runge, not to mention the tons of MiLB umpires I've had the pleasure of calling some games with. When I was coming up, our association had as guest speakers John Kibler, Ed Runge, Shag Crawford, Emmit Ashford, Eric Gregg and several other top-level officials. These people did not attend Jim Evans Umpire Academy.

Wow. Guest speakers. Imagine that.

Okay, exactly how long ago did you formulate your postion on this topic? Hmm? And with whom did you consult before finalizing your opinion? And was this before or after your stint in the majors?

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by Ump153

Wow. Guest speakers. Imagine that.

Okay, exactly how long ago did you formulate your postion on this topic? Hmm? And with whom did you consult before finalizing your opinion? And was this before or after your stint in the majors?

Why are you being so disrespectful to me? I don't understand your reasoning.

I'll take your questions one at a time:

1. In 1986, when I started umpiring baseball (yes, the year Jim worked his 3rd World Series)
2. It was an instructed interpretation that all members learned together in bi-weekly classes which were (and still are) manditory.
3. I never said that I worked in the majors. I said I've worked with these umpires, and it was in fall games and tournaments during their off-seasons both before and after their minor league assignments.

And for as long as he has been a major league umpire, Mike Winters has been a classroom instructor in our association, and we were always invited to pick his brain on any subject.