Set position stop

Klokard · #1 (**permalink**) Fri Jun 19, 2009, 01:49am

Question. In College and Fed I know a complete and discernable stop is required. I have also read that in the Pro game, a little leeway is given. Had an Indy pro game last night. Ex MLB pitcher on the mound. I am U3. A few times while in "C" I could have called a balk in the College or Fed game but left it alone as I have watched countless hours of MLB on TV and in person. He stopped. But not very long. Your thoughts on the difference?

socalblue1 · #2 (**permalink**) Fri Jun 19, 2009, 02:55am

He stopped, that's the entire requirement. If there was a problem the 3B coach would have been in your ear.

mbyron · #3 (**permalink**) Fri Jun 19, 2009, 07:19am

Quote:

Originally Posted by socalblue1

He stopped, that's the entire requirement. If there was a problem the 3B coach would have been in your ear.

That was my thought. They're not shy.

umpjayfire · #4 (**permalink**) Fri Jun 19, 2009, 08:58am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Klokard

Question. In College and Fed I know a complete and discernable stop is required. I have also read that in the Pro game, a little leeway is given. Had an Indy pro game last night. Ex MLB pitcher on the mound. I am U3. A few times while in "C" I could have called a balk in the College or Fed game but left it alone as I have watched countless hours of MLB on TV and in person. He stopped. But not very long. Your thoughts on the difference?

I'd say you did the right thing by letting it go. If you thought the pitcher didn't come to a good stop because he was trying catch R1 flat footed and hence hold him on better than a balk should've run through mind. If you weren't sure that was the case because it was just the normally came set, as SoCal said, the 3B coach (probably manager too in Indy ball) would've given you his opinion.
Either way, next time, when you have the opportunity, after a batted ball, call time to 'check the ball' and discretely tell him to come to a 'good stop'. It'll let him know he's close to balking.

GA Umpire · #5 (**permalink**) Fri Jun 19, 2009, 09:07am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Klokard

Question. In College and Fed I know a complete and discernable stop is required. I have also read that in the Pro game, a little leeway is given. Had an Indy pro game last night. Ex MLB pitcher on the mound. I am U3. A few times while in "C" I could have called a balk in the College or Fed game but left it alone as I have watched countless hours of MLB on TV and in person. He stopped. But not very long. Your thoughts on the difference?

How long does a complete and discernible stop have to be? Even the pros have to do that. And, a "good stop" is a complete and discernible stop. Is it not? If he wasn't stopping, it is a balk but apparently the other team didn't think it was so it wasn't apparently.

I am not questioning whether or not you should have called it. I am questioning the definition of a "complete and discernible" stop. What determines that?

jicecone · #6 (**permalink**) Fri Jun 19, 2009, 09:26am

I have also worked games that ex MLB players have played. Sometimes because of thier pro experience they will try and use tactics that are borderline balks and as already stated a little reminder is all that is needed.
"Hey 15, give me a good stop so this 3B coach ain't all over my butt. Appreciate it." Never , ever had any other response than "Sure Blue".

Had a left -handed ex minor ball pitcher that had an excellent move to first. However all season long because of the two man system it was difficult to get a full look at how long he was hanging his right foot out there in the move to first, and it was always borderline on final placement. We would have conversations all the time about it and he would always just smile. I was at 1B for the League Championship game and balked him for the move that brought in the go ahead run. His only comment afterwards was "good call." Which is probably another topic here, but I found that the ex-pro pitchers usually gave you a lot more respect out there.

Matt · #7 (**permalink**) Fri Jun 19, 2009, 02:09pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by GA Umpire

How long does a complete and discernible stop have to be? Even the pros have to do that. And, a "good stop" is a complete and discernible stop. Is it not? If he wasn't stopping, it is a balk but apparently the other team didn't think it was so it wasn't apparently.

I am not questioning whether or not you should have called it. I am questioning the definition of a "complete and discernible" stop. What determines that?

If you can see it, it's discernable. If you can't, it's not.

JR12 · #8 (**permalink**) Fri Jun 19, 2009, 02:19pm

From watching the Mets-O's game last night with F-Rod pitching, I'd say they give alot of lee-way on the stop.

Rich Ives · #9 (**permalink**) Fri Jun 19, 2009, 03:40pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by JR12

From watching the Mets-O's game last night with F-Rod pitching, I'd say they give alot of lee-way on the stop.

Not really. In OBR you don't have to stop with no runners on base.

K-Rod often doesn't stop with no runners on but ususlly has a pretty long stop with runners on.

JR12 · #10 (**permalink**) Sat Jun 20, 2009, 12:36am

Runners were on base! His stop was very borderline. (more of a change of direction)

http://mlb.mlb.com/media/video.jsp?t...d=bal&c_id=bal
Select NYM@Bal Huff's line drive single. (actually one of his better stops, but still borderline IMO)

bossman72 · #11 (**permalink**) Sat Jun 20, 2009, 01:38am

If you ever watched Mariano Rivera's set, he has 3 "stops" before he actually comes set.

Rich · #12 (**permalink**) Sat Jun 20, 2009, 08:40am

Quote:

Originally Posted by JR12

Runners were on base! His stop was very borderline. (more of a change of direction)

orioles.com: Multimedia
Select NYM@Bal Huff's line drive single. (actually one of his better stops, but still borderline IMO)

In that list of videos, there's a BAL double off the wall (against PHL) with R1 only that shows a great example of 4-man umpiring. Relatively close play at the plate -- U1 has rotated down and calls the runner safe.

Rich · #13 (**permalink**) Sat Jun 20, 2009, 08:43am

Quote:

Originally Posted by JR12

Runners were on base! His stop was very borderline. (more of a change of direction)

orioles.com: Multimedia
Select NYM@Bal Huff's line drive single. (actually one of his better stops, but still borderline IMO)

I found it, although it wasn't easy.

Borderline, my a$$. In the "real world" this is clearly a no-stop balk. They simply don't call that in the Major Leagues anymore.

dash_riprock · #14 (**permalink**) Sun Jun 21, 2009, 04:38pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by RichMSN

I found it, although it wasn't easy.

Borderline, my a$$. In the "real world" this is clearly a no-stop balk. They simply don't call that in the Major Leagues anymore.

I can't get the video to load, but generally, with men on, K-Rod's stop comes before the downward movement of his glove which commits him (which I agree is clearly a change of direction only).

bob jenkins · #15 (**permalink**) Sun Jun 21, 2009, 05:22pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by GA Umpire

I am questioning the definition of a "complete and discernible" stop. What determines that?

According to Evan's balk video -- the hands finish moving down before the leg begins moving up.

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