Evalutions by coaches

[SanDiegoSteve]

...are usually worthless.

[UmpJM]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

...are usually worthless.

Steve,

Aside from the "entertainment value", of course.

Can't beat 'em for that!

JM

[umpjong]

Originally Posted by UmpJM (nee CoachJM)

"Coaches evaluations"
Aside from the "entertainment value", of course.

Can't beat 'em for that!

JM

We also found that if you look real hard you can sometimes find one or two coaches who really take the time and are actually a good resource. It also helps to have documentation that certain coaches can and will give you ample ammo to establish their biases. We would even tell coaches to wait a couple days before evaluating and remind them that all evaluations were filed for future references. Documentation can be a good thing.

[zm1283]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

...are usually worthless.

Our state has coaches rate officials in all varsity contests in most sports. They put quite the emphasis on it as a matter of fact. If a coach doesn't rate officials they can be barred from the playoffs in their sport for that year.

Surprisingly enough, we don't get to rate the coaches. Funny how that works.

Yes, evaluations by coaches are worthless. It's like letting fans do it.

[ozzy6900]

Coaches have no business evaluating umpires - period!

A coach is there to take his team through the battlefield to victory, not to determine what was the cause of the loss or the victory of the battle.

Most coaches do not have any idea what the rules are, how they are interpreted, what umpire mechanics are, which set of mechanics are used at what level....... I could go on and on! Of course, you have those coaches who are "umpires" as well as coaches. they always are right there to tell you all your faults and shortcomings. I usually remind them that unless they are my partner, they need to stick to being a coach because that is what they chose to do today.

Only an umpire can evaluate another umpire and it has to be someone that knows the rules, the proper mechanics and preferably, has some time under his/her belt. Evaluators do not focus on calls but what led to the call. The umpires initial position, the signals to each other, the game situation, the "pause, read, react" that brought the umpire to his decison. None of this can be done by someone who's sole job is to lead his team through battle.

Lastly, when I can evaluate a coach and his players, then I will allow a coach to evaluate me.

[jwwashburn]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

...are usually worthless.

Agreed. How are they supposed to evaluate if they have not been trained to do so. Furthermore, I think they are kind of busy coaching.

A few years back, I got great evalations except for three schools. I called up the state and I said: That would be this school, this one and this one, right?

The guy said: "Um, let me cross reference your ejections reports..." He agreed to take out those and my top three.

That year, I got a five game ejection on a coach: First game of a tournament he screams about strike three from the 3rd base box and was halfway down the line before i could toss him...he actually was running at me on a strike in the FIRST inning...bizarre! So, the rule(Mught have been state, might have been NFHS) was Today(3 games of the tournament) AND the next day of competition-Double header a few days later. yeah, pretty bad evaluation from THAT guy!

I think that if an umpire got a lot of "unprofessional" grades from coaches, that would probably be the indication of something real, though...but they graded us on positioning? Are you kidding me?

[spokanelurker]

I'm a longtime coach, but do not feel qualified to evaluate any umpire on his knowledge of mechanics. But as to knowledge and interpretation of the rules and also game management, I think many coaches are qualified to evaluate officials. After all, isn't a large part of the dialogue on this board an informal and often vitriolic evaluation of coaches, or "rats" as you so unprofessionally term them? In another thread, one member of the board even extended that demeaning characterization to include players! Do any of you seriously think that umpires are the only participants on the field who possess any knowledge or integrity?

[GA Umpire]

Originally Posted by spokanelurker

I'm a longtime coach, but do not feel qualified to evaluate any umpire on his knowledge of mechanics. But as to knowledge and interpretation of the rules and also game management, I think many coaches are qualified to evaluate officials. After all, isn't a large part of the dialogue on this board an informal and often vitriolic evaluation of coaches, or "rats" as you so unprofessionally term them? In another thread, one member of the board even extended that demeaning characterization to include players! Do any of you seriously think that umpires are the only participants on the field who possess any knowledge or integrity?

They so unprofessionally refer to us as "idiots". Why not return the favor? At least we are professional enough not to do it DURING the game in front of everyone. As for integrity, coaches try what they can to get around the rules. Where is the integrity in trying to break the rules? I have not seen a coach/player say I dropped the ball on a play when they think they are the only ones who know it. And, as for knowledge, it is our job to learn the rules. A coach does not take the time to learn all of the rules. They learn the ones they feel relate to what they want to accomplish.

Is there 1 coach turned umpire evaluator without becoming an umpire first and learning the rules on here or anywhere? If there is fine, but I'll bet they are very few.

[jwwashburn]

Originally Posted by GA Umpire

I have not seen a coach/player say I dropped the ball on a play when they think they are the only ones who know it.

If you see a player or coach tell you NO CATCH, Blue. You would have a moron on your hands.

Are you insinuating that a player that does not make a clean catch should ask the umpire to overturn the out? I hope I am misunderstanding you.

Joe

[LMan]

Originally Posted by spokanelurker

I'm a longtime coach, but do not feel qualified to evaluate any umpire on his knowledge of mechanics.

You should have stopped your post right there.

[zm1283]

As someone who coached baseball before I umpired, I can say that I didn't feel qualified to evaluate umpires. I had an opinion about which guys were any good and which ones weren't, but I didn't know anything about rating them on mechanics/rules/etc. I wasn't a varsity HC, but I can't figure out how a 25-30 year old varsity head coach should be able to evaluate umpires that have been calling for as long as he's been alive.

[spokanelurker]

And you added what to the discussion?

[LMan]

Originally Posted by spokanelurker

And you added what to the discussion?

It's called, "addition by subtraction."

[jwwashburn]

Originally Posted by spokanelurker

I'm a longtime coach, but do not feel qualified to evaluate any umpire on his knowledge of mechanics. But as to knowledge and interpretation of the rules and also game management, I think many coaches are qualified to evaluate officials. After all, isn't a large part of the dialogue on this board an informal and often vitriolic evaluation of coaches, or "rats" as you so unprofessionally term them? In another thread, one member of the board even extended that demeaning characterization to include players! Do any of you seriously think that umpires are the only participants on the field who possess any knowledge or integrity?

Unfortunately, there are some umpires who will excuse just about anything from umpires and think that just about everything a coach does is wrong.

I used to think that rat (not a word I have used many times) meant an obnoxious/confrontational/sleazy coach. I have come to learn that, for many here, rat means any and all coaches no matter what they do and no matter how unprofessional the umpire is.

I have umpired for 15+ years and have never such a view of coaches. Have I dealt with "rats'? yes, I have...some of them have been coaches and some have been umpires.

Joe

[cc6]

Originally Posted by jwwashburn

Unfortunately, there are some umpires who will excuse just about anything from umpires and think that just about everything a coach does is wrong.

I used to think that rat (not a word I have used many times) meant an obnoxious/confrontational/sleazy coach. I have come to learn that, for many here, rat means any and all coaches no matter what they do and no matter how unprofessional the umpire is.

I have umpired for 15+ years and have never such a view of coaches. Have I dealt with "rats'? yes, I have...some of them have been coaches and some have been umpires.

Joe

I think the reason so many people here insult you and others for being coaches is because they are jealous.