Game fees.

[Matt]

Originally Posted by zm1283

Methinks you're right, but I don't want to push it too far in fear of pissing him off and not getting games.

Just from experience (thankfully not mine,) an assignor that doesn't give his umpires what is due is going to keep getting his unearned pound of flesh, and if you seriously worry about getting games because you try to get what is due you, why would you want to keep working for such a person? Try to find an association that has integrity.

[zm1283]

Originally Posted by Matt

Just from experience (thankfully not mine,) an assignor that doesn't give his umpires what is due is going to keep getting his unearned pound of flesh, and if you seriously worry about getting games because you try to get what is due you, why would you want to keep working for such a person? Try to find an association that has integrity.

I get what you mean. I might try and pursue it one more time and see how it turns out.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

These game fee rules are pure unalderated horse manure. I can live with getting a 1/2 game fee if the game is canceled before we can start the game, but once the game starts, it is a full game fee or no umpires.

MTD, Sr.

While I agree that it isn't the best policy, at least it's out in the open and you (and others) can decide whether it's worth it to work that league. If they can't get enough (quality) umpires because of the policy, they'll change it.

I think one league I work for has a policy of "50% if the game starts, plus 10% for each inning until an official game"

[Kevin Finnerty]

Umpires are paid ridiculously low fees. It's an insult to be paid what little we're already paid for going through what we go through to do a game. Measured against most vocations, it should pay three times what it pays per game. So, when we get squeezed, it is an insult tacked on an already insulting compensation rate.

I work in and around L.A. I sometimes drive as many as 80-to-100 miles round trip to do a game. Sixty miles is about average. We get zero for mileage. I have an SUV, so the gas mileage is rather poor (12-14 m.p.g.). When gas was $4.50 per gallon, I had some games that were costing me $20 just for gas.

We do this because we love it. I can think of only one thing that I would do for less money than I accept for umpiring. But in order to keep umpiring, the costs and sacrifices must be allayed somewhat by a reasonable fee. It needs to go up, not down. These guys who try to go on the cheap deserve the umpiring they eventually get.

[piaa_ump]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

I think one league I work for has a policy of "50% if the game starts, plus 10% for each inning until an official game"

we have something similar...........$20 travel fee if not cancelled 1 hour prior to game time.......if stopped prior to official game...$20 travel +$3 an Inning....if stopped after official game point reached Full fee...

[BuggBob]

Are you guys kidding? No game no fee, that makes total and complete sense. If I hire the kid next door to mow my lawn , he gets paid when the lawn is mowed. If he starts and does not finish because of weather, sorry kid no pay. If I hire a guy to paint my house, fix my plumbing, wash my car, serve me a meal at Red Robin -- same deal, no work (or incomplete work) no pay. How can I require a standard from others, but not hold myself to that same standard. While we usually don't get paid on site (with very few exceptions) we wont get paid for any game that is weathered out before official. I have umpired a contest that was stopped in the fourth because of rain -- no pay. I have shown up at the field for a game to have the field rained out at game time -- no pay.

While I value much of what I read in these forums, Getting paid for no work is one topic which we may disagree. I fully expect some to take great offence at my stand on this topic -- this is the way it is done here, I expect it is done differently elsewhere. But I think the assigner mentioned by the original poster is right.

Welcome to America where all opinions are received and encouraged.

[MrUmpire]

Originally Posted by BuggBob

Are you guys kidding? No game no fee, that makes total and complete sense. If I hire the kid next door to mow my lawn , he gets paid when the lawn is mowed. If he starts and does not finish because of weather, sorry kid no pay. If I hire a guy to paint my house, fix my plumbing, wash my car, serve me a meal at Red Robin -- same deal, no work (or incomplete work) no pay. How can I require a standard from others, but not hold myself to that same standard. While we usually don't get paid on site (with very few exceptions) we wont get paid for any game that is weathered out before official. I have umpired a contest that was stopped in the fourth because of rain -- no pay. I have shown up at the field for a game to have the field rained out at game time -- no pay.

While I value much of what I read in these forums, Getting paid for no work is one topic which we may disagree. I fully expect some to take great offence at my stand on this topic -- this is the way it is done here, I expect it is done differently elsewhere. But I think the assigner mentioned by the original poster is right.

Welcome to America where all opinions are received and encouraged.

Do you ask the kid next door to come over and wait to see if you decide you want the lawn mowed, then tell him no after watching it rain for half an hour?

The game fee or half a game fee for showing up is used as much as a discouragement to that lame practice.

When I spend the time to get to a game and then wait a half hour for the home coach to decide if the game starts or not, I deserve compensation.

Trying hiring a plumber, have him hang around and do nothing and then tell him you changed your mind. If you don't get a bill for time and travel you're not sharing the experience that most of us have.

By the way, locally we get the travel fee and half a game fee if the game does not start and the travel fee and a full game fee after the first pitch.

[Kevin Finnerty]

Originally Posted by BuggBob

Are you guys kidding? No game no fee, that makes total and complete sense. If I hire the kid next door to mow my lawn , he gets paid when the lawn is mowed. If he starts and does not finish because of weather, sorry kid no pay. If I hire a guy to paint my house, fix my plumbing, wash my car, serve me a meal at Red Robin -- same deal, no work (or incomplete work) no pay. How can I require a standard from others, but not hold myself to that same standard. While we usually don't get paid on site (with very few exceptions) we wont get paid for any game that is weathered out before official. I have umpired a contest that was stopped in the fourth because of rain -- no pay. I have shown up at the field for a game to have the field rained out at game time -- no pay.

While I value much of what I read in these forums, Getting paid for no work is one topic which we may disagree. I fully expect some to take great offence at my stand on this topic -- this is the way it is done here, I expect it is done differently elsewhere. But I think the assigner mentioned by the original poster is right.

Welcome to America where all opinions are received and encouraged.

Okay, profound and fair thinker, here's an opinion:

I already stated that I sometimes drive as many as 50 miles to a ballgame. I equip and insure myself at considerable cost. I buy books and manuals and subscriptions to better myself at my craft. On the occasion of a game, I give up work to take off early to go to a game. In addition to the two or more total hours of driving, each game also requires an hour of preparation and an hour of clean-up and maintenance at its completion. Then, of course, there's the laundering and pressing of the uniforms.

Now, if I drive 50 miles to do a game, and I suit up for that game, and it is not played, canceled without notice, or some such thing, it bears no resemblance to any of those lawn-mowing-house-painting-burger-slinging scenarios you chose to include in your specious comparison.

It is you who must be kidding. Obviously, your standards and codes are in need of refinement, and your way of seeing things begs for some nuanced views.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by MrUmpire

Trying hiring a plumber, have him hang around and do nothing and then tell him you changed your mine. If you don't get a bill for time and travel you're not sharing the experience that most of us have.

That's the analogy that occurred to me.

Originally Posted by MrUmpire

By the way, locally we get the travel fee and half a game fee if the game does not start and the travel fee and a full game fee after the first pitch.

Ours is similar: no travel fee, but 1/2 to show up, full fee after 1 pitch.

[Pensaump]

Originally Posted by BuggBob

Are you guys kidding? No game no fee, that makes total and complete sense. If I hire the kid next door to mow my lawn , he gets paid when the lawn is mowed. If he starts and does not finish because of weather, sorry kid no pay. If I hire a guy to paint my house, fix my plumbing, wash my car, serve me a meal at Red Robin -- same deal, no work (or incomplete work) no pay. How can I require a standard from others, but not hold myself to that same standard. While we usually don't get paid on site (with very few exceptions) we wont get paid for any game that is weathered out before official. I have umpired a contest that was stopped in the fourth because of rain -- no pay. I have shown up at the field for a game to have the field rained out at game time -- no pay.

While I value much of what I read in these forums, Getting paid for no work is one topic which we may disagree. I fully expect some to take great offence at my stand on this topic -- this is the way it is done here, I expect it is done differently elsewhere. But I think the assigner mentioned by the original poster is right.

Welcome to America where all opinions are received and encouraged.

I don't post much, but I have to step in and say something about this...

But what if you changed your mind and never told the lawn boy, painter or etc... that you didn't want them to do the job now once they showed up.

I'm in 3 associations. All 3 have the same policy. You show up, you get paid at least one game fee. Double header pay is reduced to single pay + travel. Our contracts with the schools require 4 hour notice for game cancellations and weather cancellations. Although this is not always enforced in more local assignments (which is fair) and enforced harder for long distance travels for other schools.

The coaches and AD's have the weather channel, weather.com and weather on their cell phones just like we do..... If they want to take on the chance of the rain and decide to have the crew still show up and then bang it before the game starts, we get paid.

Hell even the youth ball association here has the same policy.... The guys that run the youth league call in one of the associations I'm in and do a good job of implementing this policy as well to their youth association.

Same principle really as dentist, doctor, vet cancellation fee's... They did no work but still charge you for YOU not showing up...

If I'm going to set my time aside to WORK a game and then THEY cancel it, I'm getting paid. I could have gone in and picked up an extra shift at work and etc... One of my umpire buddies owns his own business and TAKES OFF EARLY from work when he goes to umpire games. He already takes a pay cut to umpire vs. his normal job!!! And now you don't want to pay anything at all???

[Ump Rube]

House league... (90% of games start at 6:30pm)

League wide cancel prior to 4:30: No pay.
Umpire cancels game at field: Full pay, plus 1st crack to reschedule.
Umpire cancels/postpones mid-game: Ditto.
No one shows at field: Full pay.
Forfeit: Full pay.
Something weird happens (ie 4 umps, 1 field): Typically everybody gets full pay.

It is nice to have a league that is willing to be there for the umpires. We even had so many new guys this year they added the 2-man system to the next level down just to get guys more games (even when the numbers are down for participants).

[BuggBob]

Okay, fooling with a mans money, wife, truck, or beer are taboo topics.

The original post related a happening based upon an "act of God" not a change of mind. Heck, if they change their mind they pay. Don't all of your associations have some kind of fee or fine if you change your mind after accepting an assignment? I still believe that if the game is not played due to wind, rain, or snow you should not get paid. Look where I live, I got rained off 12 (game) days in a row his spring.

I totally agree with the advice from many on this topic, if not getting paid for rainouts is an issue for you then don't work for that association. The assigner was right, if you are only working for the money -- you are probably not a very good umpire. Now before any blow a head gasket answer the following question. What are the top five reasons you umpire? If you answered all five as money you have helped make my point, but if you answered anything else then why are you willing to walk because of money?. Yes I like the money I get for umpiring, this year I am taking my wife to Hawaii for Christmas thanks to umpiring, but money is not the only reason I umpire. I am willing to bet money is not the only reason any of you umpire (again you proved this point by simply participating in this forum, a place to share ideas and techniques with other umpires thereby making us all better umpires). Also, while I may not get paid for a rainout, there are still expenses associated with that rainout -- guess what? These expenses are tax deductable. So while I don't get paid, it really don't cost me anything in the long run.

Lastly with the economy in the crapper I have noticed a great influx of new officials, this year we experienced unprecedented growth, most of those guys are only for the money kind of guys and without exception every one of those money guys is a crappy "smtty" umpire. So if you can't live with this policy see ya, there are two (crappy) guys in the wings waiting for your position.

[MrUmpire]

Originally Posted by BuggBob

The original post related a happening based upon an "act of God" not a change of mind. Heck, if they change their mind they pay. Don't all of your associations have some kind of fee or fine if you change your mind after accepting an assignment? I still believe that if the game is not played due to wind, rain, or snow you should not get paid.

Do I spend any less time and resources getting to a game and standing around waiting a half hour plus while a decision is being made to play or not if the reason is a no show by a team, a fickle home coach, or rain?

No.

As I alluded to before, absent our policy, coaches were actually encouraged to keep games scheduled that they knew weren't going to be played because there was no penalty for doing so. Now, we get notice of cancellations due to weather usually two hours prior to game time.

[DonInKansas]

Originally Posted by Kevin Finnerty

Okay, profound and fair thinker, here's an opinion:

I already stated that I sometimes drive as many as 50 miles to a ballgame.

Pfft. 50 miles one way for me is a CLOSE ballgame. I average 125-150 miles round trip. The joys of living out in the sticks.

Anyhoo, I can't speak to those who work in an association, but I've never had problems getting paid for a washout. Lucky I guess.

[umpjong]

Originally Posted by BuggBob

if you are only working for the money -- you are probably not a very good umpire.

This is such an asinine statement, I will leave my comment to just that. Asinine!!!