Game fees.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by umpjong

This is such an asinine statement, I will leave my comment to just that. Asinine!!!

Now, now...remember, it's for the kids!

[Rich]

Originally Posted by BuggBob

Are you guys kidding? No game no fee, that makes total and complete sense. If I hire the kid next door to mow my lawn , he gets paid when the lawn is mowed. If he starts and does not finish because of weather, sorry kid no pay. If I hire a guy to paint my house, fix my plumbing, wash my car, serve me a meal at Red Robin -- same deal, no work (or incomplete work) no pay. How can I require a standard from others, but not hold myself to that same standard. While we usually don't get paid on site (with very few exceptions) we wont get paid for any game that is weathered out before official. I have umpired a contest that was stopped in the fourth because of rain -- no pay. I have shown up at the field for a game to have the field rained out at game time -- no pay.

While I value much of what I read in these forums, Getting paid for no work is one topic which we may disagree. I fully expect some to take great offence at my stand on this topic -- this is the way it is done here, I expect it is done differently elsewhere. But I think the assigner mentioned by the original poster is right.

Welcome to America where all opinions are received and encouraged.

I am not a kid mowing the lawn.

Good luck calling a plumber, having him come out, and changing your mind about using his services after he arrived.

What's to keep teams from letting the umpires arrive knowing that they *likely* won't play? Isn't your time worth something to you?

Actually, your post reminds me of people who say "what a great gig, making $60 for less than 2 hours work." I guess that my leaving work early, driving to the field, getting there early, etc. has no monetary value. I guess the money I spend on gear, association dues, training, etc. has no monetary value either. It's just "$X for only Y hours work."

You have a right to your opinion - that doesn't make it any less ignorant or wrong.

[briancurtin]

Originally Posted by BuggBob

Also, while I may not get paid for a rainout, there are still expenses associated with that rainout -- guess what? These expenses are tax deductable. So while I don't get paid, it really don't cost me anything in the long run.

The value of the deduction for one single rainout date is possibly the weakest support for non-paying rainouts ever imaginable.

[UmpJM]

Originally Posted by BuggBob

Are you guys kidding? No game no fee, that makes total and complete sense. If I hire the kid next door to mow my lawn , he gets paid when the lawn is mowed. If he starts and does not finish because of weather, sorry kid no pay. If I hire a guy to paint my house, fix my plumbing, wash my car, serve me a meal at Red Robin -- same deal, no work (or incomplete work) no pay. How can I require a standard from others, but not hold myself to that same standard. While we usually don't get paid on site (with very few exceptions) we wont get paid for any game that is weathered out before official. I have umpired a contest that was stopped in the fourth because of rain -- no pay. I have shown up at the field for a game to have the field rained out at game time -- no pay.

While I value much of what I read in these forums, Getting paid for no work is one topic which we may disagree. I fully expect some to take great offence at my stand on this topic -- this is the way it is done here, I expect it is done differently elsewhere. But I think the assigner mentioned by the original poster is right.

Welcome to America where all opinions are received and encouraged.

BuggBob,

Thank you for your highly entertaining post.

Funny stuff.

I was just wondering.... Does the assignor still get paid his assignment fee if the game is "...weathered out before official."?

The assigner (sic) isn't "right" - he's a joke.

JM

[waltjp]

Originally Posted by UmpJM (nee CoachJM)

BuggBob,
I was just wondering.... Does the assignor still get paid his assignment fee if the game is "...weathered out before official."?

The assignor probably makes a few extra bucks when he assigns the rescheduled game.

[Kevin Finnerty]

Originally Posted by BuggBob

Okay, fooling with a mans money, wife, truck, or beer are taboo topics.

The original post related a happening based upon an "act of God" not a change of mind. Heck, if they change their mind they pay. Don't all of your associations have some kind of fee or fine if you change your mind after accepting an assignment? I still believe that if the game is not played due to wind, rain, or snow you should not get paid. Look where I live, I got rained off 12 (game) days in a row his spring.

I totally agree with the advice from many on this topic, if not getting paid for rainouts is an issue for you then don't work for that association. The assigner was right, if you are only working for the money -- you are probably not a very good umpire. Now before any blow a head gasket answer the following question. What are the top five reasons you umpire? If you answered all five as money you have helped make my point, but if you answered anything else then why are you willing to walk because of money?. Yes I like the money I get for umpiring, this year I am taking my wife to Hawaii for Christmas thanks to umpiring, but money is not the only reason I umpire. I am willing to bet money is not the only reason any of you umpire (again you proved this point by simply participating in this forum, a place to share ideas and techniques with other umpires thereby making us all better umpires). Also, while I may not get paid for a rainout, there are still expenses associated with that rainout -- guess what? These expenses are tax deductable. So while I don't get paid, it really don't cost me anything in the long run.

Lastly with the economy in the crapper I have noticed a great influx of new officials, this year we experienced unprecedented growth, most of those guys are only for the money kind of guys and without exception every one of those money guys is a crappy "smtty" umpire. So if you can't live with this policy see ya, there are two (crappy) guys in the wings waiting for your position.

Wow!

You're not an especially deep thinker, are you?

[Pensaump]

Originally Posted by BuggBob

if you are only working for the money -- you are probably not a very good umpire.

Let me tell you something about money and good umpiring. The difference in money between your youth ball games and high school or college game fee's are a lot of different.

If I was in it "only" for the love of umpiring, I would still be calling kid ball exclusively 5 min up the road.

Getting into higher game fee's usually requires being a "pretty good" umpire.... If the higher game fee's are not motivation to get "pretty good" then what is???

If you are doing it only "for the love of the game" then you just stay down there in the youth leagues and let us worry about the money.

Your comments are the most Asinine thing I've seen on here in a while. Game fee's for rain outs HELP umpires and is GOOD for umpiring. The best thing about game fee's for rain outs is that it makes the coaches and AD's give a **** about the umpires on some level enough to call them so YOU don't have to make a trip for nothing.

Besides, the league you are calling in obviously only looks at you as a monetary figure anyways trying to not pay you, why should you look at them any different?

[Kevin Finnerty]

I like higher-level games for the challenge and to watch a higher level of play from the best seat in the house. No matter what the fee is, it is inadequate, so it's essentially irrelevant.

The fee is relevant for the other reasons that you so eloquently stated. We must get paid something so that we can be respectable.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Kevin Finnerty

I like higher-level games for the challenge and to watch a higher level of play from the best seat in the house. No matter what the fee is, it is inadequate, so it's essentially irrelevant.

The fee is relevant for the other reasons that you so eloquently stated. We must get paid something so that we can be respectable.

A few local guys were trying to argue that JV and Freshman games should be paid the same as varsity games. I found that argument ridiculous -- it's not just the time that's being rewarded, it's the skill required to work and stick at a particular level.

Frankly, money is one of the key reasons I packed in the 3 D3 conferences I worked the past 5 years. They simply didn't pay enough for the aggravation. $185 with no mileage for an 18-inning day that frequently lasted 6 hours (not a lot of good pitching, either) with a bunch of Earl Weaver wannabes - yeah, that was a whole lot of fun. And the 2-3 hour drives up front. If they worked 3-person, I'd do it, but having to do a plate job every single day and having to drive most of the time, not worth it to me. Although I'm not really doing it for the money, it's part of the picture of respect (or lack thereof) that you get. And AFAIC, hiring 2 umpires for NCAA baseball is about as little respect as a sport can get -- they'd never think of running less than 3 for basketball or 7 for football these days.

This year I worked a lot of HS doubleheaders on Saturdays and made $120 for 14 innings and was 30 minutes from the house.

[Pensaump]

Originally Posted by Kevin Finnerty

I like higher-level games for the challenge and to watch a higher level of play from the best seat in the house. No matter what the fee is, it is inadequate, so it's essentially irrelevant.

The fee is relevant for the other reasons that you so eloquently stated. We must get paid something so that we can be respectable.

You are right about this. I didn't mean to only make that point of view. What you said is a VERY good point.

I'd pay some of my game fee's back if I could grantee good pitching every game!!

[PeteBooth]

My gut tells me that you wrote this to get a 'rise" out of everyone but if you are serious here is my take.

I agree with Rich. Using your scenario what's to stop the teams from not calling at all when games are cancelled, move to a different site, different time etc. The teams would 'walk all over" the umpires.

As Rich stated OUR job is to get to the game site preferably 30-45 minutes ahead of time.

SITCH: USING YOUR PHILOSOPHY

Team A realizes they will not have their studs present today so they decide to simply NOT show up. they tell the other coach but not the umpire assignor.

Assume Rich and I partners. We are leaving work etc. and now we get to the game and there are no teams present. According to your philosophy we should not get paid. We just left work (maybe early and used either vacation and or personal time that we had accrued so it is costing us money)

ANYTIME and any REASON the coaches wanted to cancel games with NO reprocussions they would.

the one thing I give kuddos for is this:

At least there is a policy. It might suck but it is written and now it's up to the members to either accept or reject it. Me personally I would reject it BUT if an umpire does accept the terms then they cannot squalk later on.

Pete Booth

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

A few local guys were trying to argue that JV and Freshman games should be paid the same as varsity games. I found that argument ridiculous -- it's not just the time that's being rewarded, it's the skill required to work and stick at a particular level.

Game #1 (Level of Play--Boys' H.S. Varsity): Final Score: Home-3, Visitor-2; Number of Innings: 6-1/2; Length of Game: 1 hr, 20 min; Game Fee: $60


Game #2 (Level of Play--Boys' H.S. Freshmen): Final Score: Home-15, Visitor-32; Number of Innings: 7; Length of Game: 3 hr, 20 min; Game Fee: $40


Rich:

I see your point, .

I had Game #2 years ago when the OhioHSAA had a 15-run rule.

MTD, Sr.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

Game #1 (Level of Play--Boys' H.S. Varsity): Final Score: Home-3, Visitor-2; Number of Innings: 6-1/2; Length of Game: 1 hr, 20 min; Game Fee: $60


Game #2 (Level of Play--Boys' H.S. Freshmen): Final Score: Home-15, Visitor-32; Number of Innings: 7; Length of Game: 3 hr, 20 min; Game Fee: $40


Rich:

I see your point, .

I had Game #2 years ago when the OhioHSAA had a 15-run rule.

MTD, Sr.

It's like I always say: If you want the 2-1, 75 minute game, make yourself a varsity umpire.

I work basketball and do between 35-40 games a season, all varsity. The JV game beforehand is usually, without a doubt, the more difficult game to call consistently. And yet I'd rather stay home than work one.

The only beast that's different is football. With one game a week, all Fridays, it's fun going out on Mondays and Thursdays and working subvarsity with the crew.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

It's like I always say: If you want the 2-1, 75 minute game, make yourself a varsity umpire.

I work basketball and do between 35-40 games a season, all varsity. The JV game beforehand is usually, without a doubt, the more difficult game to call consistently. And yet I'd rather stay home than work one.

The only beast that's different is football. With one game a week, all Fridays, it's fun going out on Mondays and Thursdays and working subvarsity with the crew.

Rich:

You missed my point. I agree with you. But there are some of us that work all three levels (FR, JV, and VAR) during the course of the season, and when you get those three hour FR or JV games, you really earn your game fee.

MTD, Sr.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

Rich:

You missed my point. I agree with you. But there are some of us that work all three levels (FR, JV, and VAR) during the course of the season, and when you get those three hour FR or JV games, you really earn your game fee.

MTD, Sr.

I don't know how you folks have time to work multiple levels. To me, looking at my schedule next season with 40 games (basketball) on it already, it looks very, very full.

Although I have a list with open dates sitting in front of me just in case I need it.