Obstruction?

[gslefeb]

Little League game.

R2 and R3; Pitcher throws wide pitch, R3 scores with a play at the plate. R2 rounds third base and runs into the 3B standing a couple feet away from 3rd - down the line in foul territory.

Is this considered Obstruction? If so, is R2 awarded Home?

thanks.

[FTVMartin]

Was R2 making an attempt to score? If so and if the contact with F5 prevented him in any way from going home, then yes, you have obstruction and R2 should be awarded home.

If he wasn't trying to score and just made contact while rounding the base then you have nothing.

[gslefeb]

R2 was not trying to score as the ball was at home plate and he took only a couple of steps around the base.

[David B]

Originally Posted by gslefeb

R2 was not trying to score as the ball was at home plate and he took only a couple of steps around the base.

that's just incidental contact. He has to be attempting to advance for obstruction to occur.

Thanks
David

[Rich Ives]

It's still obstruction - it's just type b and you don't award home.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by Rich Ives

It's still obstruction - it's just type b and you don't award home.

To further clarify, you award R2 3rd base on the obstruction, because that is the base he was going back to, not trying to score.

[waltjp]

I'd be careful with the way you're stating it, Steve. The runner may still be advancing, i.e. - moving forward after rounding third base with no real intent of trying to score at the time of the obstruction.

Type B, runner to third. Someone is bound to read your statement and say that the runner would be awarded third base because he was moving toward third, or home because he was moving in that direction.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Rich Ives

It's still obstruction - it's just type b and you don't award home.

I disagree. Not all contact is obstruciton (or interference). Only if it hinders the pattern of play (or words to that effect depending on the rules set).

As I envision the play in my mind's eye, it's nothing. (But, I would remind F5 to stay out of the way.)

[steveshane67]

Originally Posted by FTVMartin

Was R2 making an attempt to score? If so and if the contact with F5 prevented him in any way from going home, then yes, you have obstruction and R2 should be awarded home.

If he wasn't trying to score and just made contact while rounding the base then you have nothing.

not to hijack the thread, but I was under the impression that you would only award a base if the runner actually proceeded to run to said base and the obstruction resulted in the runner being put out. Meaning if the runner makes no further attempt to advance after the contact with the fielder, then it would be awfully hard for an umpire to judge that the obstruction caused the runner not to reach the next base (obviously extreme cases like a fielder tackling a runner exist).

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by steveshane67

not to hijack the thread, but I was under the impression that you would only award a base if the runner actually proceeded to run to said base and the obstruction resulted in the runner being put out. Meaning if the runner makes no further attempt to advance after the contact with the fielder, then it would be awfully hard for an umpire to judge that the obstruction caused the runner not to reach the next base (obviously extreme cases like a fielder tackling a runner exist).

This criterion is not part of the rule or its usual interpretation. The rule uses language like "hinders the runner in his attempt to run the bases," and running the bases does not always mean advancing to the next base.

For example: R2, batter singles. R2 is obstructed by F5 rounding third, falls down, and returns to 3B. This is textbook OBS, and the runner must be awarded home.

[steveshane67]

Originally Posted by mbyron

This criterion is not part of the rule or its usual interpretation. The rule uses language like "hinders the runner in his attempt to run the bases," and running the bases does not always mean advancing to the next base.

For example: R2, batter singles. R2 is obstructed by F5 rounding third, falls down, and returns to 3B. This is textbook OBS, and the runner must be awarded home.

I understand if the runner falls down OBS would be called, but Ive never seen a base awarded when the runner and the fielder "merely bump shoulders" or similar "incidental contact", which seems to be the situation described by the OP and was the situation I was trying to imply in my post.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by steveshane67

I understand if the runner falls down OBS would be called, but Ive never seen a base awarded when the runner and the fielder "merely bump shoulders" or similar "incidental contact", which seems to be the situation described by the OP and was the situation I was trying to imply in my post.

I have called OBS when there was no contact at all, if the runner had to go around the fielder.

OBS should be called when it occurs, not when the runner is thrown out at the plate.

[kylejt]

Let's simplify type b obstruction.

You simply award the runner what would, or could have happened if the obstruction didn't take place. That may be the next base, back to the current one, or nothing at all.

i.e. if you see a slight OBS at third, but the runner is thrown out at the plate by 15', you've got still got OBS, not an award of the dish. Either way, he was dead at the dish.

So, in the original play, R2 gets bumped by F5 at third, but the catcher has the ball at the plate. Could he have scored? No, so no award.

[GA Umpire]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

I disagree. Not all contact is obstruciton (or interference). Only if it hinders the pattern of play (or words to that effect depending on the rules set).

As I envision the play in my mind's eye, it's nothing. (But, I would remind F5 to stay out of the way.)

Bob,
I'd agree with this for Fed rules. Simply b/c in Fed, if OBS is called, the runner is awarded the next base.

In OBR, I disagree and I think Kyle got it. I still call OBS b/c of the contact. It is not incidental b/c F5 had no business being there. And, in OBR, base awards(whether it be advancing or returning) are given if any apply. As in Kyle's ex., the runner is thrown out by a mile. So, even though OBS would be called, the runner is still out at HP.

So, in the OP, I still have OBS but no awards are given if not playing under Fed or any rule set which automatically awards at least 1 base on OBS.

[Rich Ives]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

I disagree. Not all contact is obstruciton (or interference). Only if it hinders the pattern of play (or words to that effect depending on the rules set).

As I envision the play in my mind's eye, it's nothing. (But, I would remind F5 to stay out of the way.)

Disagree. A runner rounding third is looking to advance if possible.