Pick off attempt goes out of play

[travlinmatt]

FED Rules. Runner on 1st. RHP comes set. He then steps back off the pitcher's plate and throws to F3. The ball sails over F3's head and goes out of play. What do you award to R1?

I am currently debating this with another umpire.

I argue 1 base is awarded. My counterpart argues 2. The strict reading of rule 8.3.3d does allow for interpretation.

Rule 8.3.3d: "Each runner is awarded one base if a pitch or any throw from the pitcher from his pitching position on his plate goes into a stand or bench...."

My counterpart states that if the pitcher throws directly from the plate, one base is awarded, but by stepping backward the pitcher becomes a fielder and therefore 2 bases must be awarded. I disagree completely and believe that the key to the rule is "from the pitching position." His interpretation is "from the pitcher's plate."

Please Clarify. I appreciate it.

Matt

[nopachunts]

Once the pitcher disengages, he/she is no longer a pitcher. The pitcher has now become a fielder. Go from there.

[Jimology]

to your friend.

[Ump Rube]

Originally Posted by travlinmatt

FED Rules. Runner on 1st. RHP comes set. He then steps back off the pitcher's plate and throws to F3. The ball sails over F3's head and goes out of play. What do you award to R1?

I am currently debating this with another umpire.

I argue 1 base is awarded. My counterpart argues 2. The strict reading of rule 8.3.3d does allow for interpretation.

Rule 8.3.3d: "Each runner is awarded one base if a pitch or any throw from the pitcher from his pitching position on his plate goes into a stand or bench...."

My counterpart states that if the pitcher throws directly from the plate, one base is awarded, but by stepping backward the pitcher becomes a fielder and therefore 2 bases must be awarded. I disagree completely and believe that the key to the rule is "from the pitching position." His interpretation is "from the pitcher's plate."

Please Clarify. I appreciate it.

Matt

The 1B award listed in 8-3-3D is for a pitch pick-off attempt made while engaged. nopachunts is right. Once disengaged his a fielder and his throw are treated as such.

[UmpJM]

travlinmatt,

Your counterpart is absolutely correct.

"one from the rubber, two from the field"

JM

[Ump Rube]

Originally Posted by UmpJM (nee CoachJM)

travlinmatt,

Your counterpart is absolutely correct.

"one from the rubber, two from the field"

JM

three to get ready, and four to go!

Oh, never mind.

[bossman72]

2 base award matt!

[ozzy6900]

Sigh!

Try to remember that F1 can either throw from the rubber (he is a pitcher) or step off (he becomes a fielder). Now remember this and memorize the following:

1 from the rubber
2 from the field

Now go apologize to your partner for not knowing rules and arguing with he who does! Buy him a beer, also.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by Ump Rube

three to get ready, and four to go!

Oh, never mind.

AND GO CAT GO!!

MTD, Sr.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by UmpJM (nee CoachJM)

travlinmatt,

Your counterpart is absolutely correct.

"one from the rubber, two from the field"

JM

And, just to further confuse Matt, a jump turn and a jab step are also both one base awards (if the ball is thrown out of play), even though F1 isn't touching the rubber at the time of the throw.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

And, just to further confuse Matt, a jump turn and a jab step are also both one base awards (if the ball is thrown out of play), even though F1 isn't touching the rubber at the time of the throw.

As you know, Bob, this is a bit of a red herring: it all depends on what you mean by "time of the throw." These moves begin with F1 in contact and end with a throw (or legal feint, I suppose -- LHP doing the move to 3B may feint) to a base.

When addressing coaches and small children, I prefer to keep it simple: did he step off first or not? 2 bases or 1, accordingly.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by mbyron

As you know, Bob, this is a bit of a red herring: it all depends on what you mean by "time of the throw." These moves begin with F1 in contact and end with a throw (or legal feint, I suppose -- LHP doing the move to 3B may feint) to a base.

When addressing coaches and small children, I prefer to keep it simple: did he step off first or not? 2 bases or 1, accordingly.

Agreed, but way too many coaches, players, fans, and even umpires, don't understand the distinction.