tag pushes foot off of the bag

[newump]

a jimmy rollins tag just appeared to push a runner's foot off of a bag which he was barely clinging to with his foot. ump called him out. is there any interp for the runner having to hold the bag firmly enough to not get pushed off by the tag??

[DG]

Originally Posted by newump

a jimmy rollins tag just appeared to push a runner's foot off of a bag which he was barely clinging to with his foot. ump called him out. is there any interp for the runner having to hold the bag firmly enough to not get pushed off by the tag??

See BRD 425. I am not familiar with Jimmy Rollins tag but remember Hrbek making this tag on Gant in the 91 series for an out.

[kylejt]

The umpire just made a bad call. Nothing to interpret, other than he missed the slap, and saw the foot off the bag.

[DG]

Originally Posted by kylejt

The umpire just made a bad call. Nothing to interpret, other than he missed the slap, and saw the foot off the bag.

Not according to the interp listed in BRD and game precedent not refuted.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by kylejt

The umpire just made a bad call. Nothing to interpret, other than he missed the slap, and saw the foot off the bag.

If the force of a mere tag knocked the runner off, well, too bad for the runner. A push wold be a whole 'nother story.

[ggk]

BRD 425 nails it - the mlb interp states that "if a runner going into a base does not have body control, he is out when a hard tag knocks him off the base. BRD also references the history of the ruling and the gant/hrbek play.


in the sit with rollins the runner slid awkwardly and did not have body control. great call

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

If the force of a mere tag knocked the runner off, well, too bad for the runner. A push wold be a whole 'nother story.

Exactly.

And here's the answer to the followup question: umpire judgment.

[GA Umpire]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

If the force of a mere tag knocked the runner off, well, too bad for the runner. A push wold be a whole 'nother story.

I agree with this. Whose to say the runner's momentum didn't carry him off the base? Also, being tagged like that is part of baseball.

Hrbek's was a bad call. It sounds like Rollins' play was a good call(I have not seen it). If it happened while the runner is still sliding in, then it is part of the play and whatever happens, happens. Hrbek was pulling Gant(big difference b/c Gant's momentum clearly wasn't doing this and the play part was over in my judgment).

[SanDiegoSteve]

I saw it as it happened, then saw numerous replays. Bob Scanlon even said that in real time, it looked like Gonzales' momentum carried him off the base, combined with the angle the umpire had that blocked his view of Gonzales' foot. In slow motion you can see that Gonzales got his foot back on the base, under control, with no momentum going away from the base. The tag was clearly applied with the intention of pushing him off the base. It was a very tough call in the real speed in which it happened. At first looked, I was calling it with the umpire, but in hindsight it appeared an intentional push off by Rollins.

[bossman72]

Interesting trivia:

There is NO RULE that says a fielder cannot force a runner off the base... yet, we enforce it this way. Always thought that was kinda funny...

[cc6]

Originally Posted by ggk

BRD 425 nails it - the mlb interp states that "if a runner going into a base does not have body control, he is out when a hard tag knocks him off the base. BRD also references the history of the ruling and the gant/hrbek play.


in the sit with rollins the runner slid awkwardly and did not have body control. great call

What is the interpretation for non-MLB games?

[David B]

Originally Posted by cc6

What is the interpretation for non-MLB games?

I'm calling it the same as the MLB interp. In slow motion there was a question about the "push" so you know in real time it probably looked like the runner simply came off the bag.

On the first replays I saw on ESPN that what I thought until they started to show it in slow motion etc.,

Thanks
David

[JPaco54]

What is the ruling if the defense does pushes or pulls the runner off the base?
It was mentioned there is no rules reference for this action.

All I have been studying is the MLB OBR's since the youth leagues I ump refer to these rules. Is there another reference book I need to study? What is BRD?

Thanks in advance!

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by JPaco54

What is the ruling if the defense does pushes or pulls the runner off the base?
It was mentioned there is no rules reference for this action.

All I have been studying is the MLB OBR's since the youth leagues I ump refer to these rules. Is there another reference book I need to study? What is BRD?

Thanks in advance!

The BRD is Baseball Rules Differences by Carl Childress, long-time baseball umpire, writer, and Official Forum member. Here is a link to purchase this resource:
Officiating.com : Shop : The 2009 BRD—Baseball Rule Differences

Not pushing or pulling a runner off the base should not need its own special rule. It should just fall directly under unsportsmanlike conduct, and I will not call a runner out whose own momentum did not carry them off the base.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by bossman72

Interesting trivia:

There is NO RULE that says a fielder cannot force a runner off the base... yet, we enforce it this way. Always thought that was kinda funny...

I would simply call time. No award of bases, no obstruction, just time.

I saw the replay of the Rollins play last night. He pushed him off the base. I only saw the slow-mo, so have no idea what it looked like in real time.