fielder pushes runner off of the bag

ggk · #1 (**permalink**) Mon Jun 05, 2006, 12:06am

did anyone see the phils- brewers last week. ryan howard was on 3rd base. a line drive was hit the the 3rd baseman who then dived towards third in an attempt to double off howard. howard dives back in, the ump signaled safe and then the 3rd baseman's glove(with the ball in it) hit howard's hand and pushed it off of the bag and then the ump ruled him out! the local paper rec'd an explanation from the ump which stated that there wasn't an intent to push his hand off of the bag, simply the 3rd baseman's momentum and therefore the play is legal and the runner is out. i heard this story second hand and couldnt believe it. how could they allow the runner to be pushed off of the bag - regardless of intent. why was the 3rd baseman even trying to tag howard?? all he had to do was touch the base - to which he was closer (howard slid head first the the outside part of the bag.
thoughts???

mbyron · #2 (**permalink**) Mon Jun 05, 2006, 07:11am

Any thoughts? Yes: HTBT. Very hard to tell what happened from your description, and I did not see it.

waltjp · #3 (**permalink**) Mon Jun 05, 2006, 08:09am

Wasn't there a play like this in the '91 World Series between Atlanta and Minnesota? I seem to recall Hrbek pushing an Atlanta runner off first on a pick-off play.

bob jenkins · #4 (**permalink**) Mon Jun 05, 2006, 08:16am

Quote:

Originally Posted by ggk

did anyone see the phils- brewers last week. ryan howard was on 3rd base. a line drive was hit the the 3rd baseman who then dived towards third in an attempt to double off howard. howard dives back in, the ump signaled safe and then the 3rd baseman's glove(with the ball in it) hit howard's hand and pushed it off of the bag and then the ump ruled him out! the local paper rec'd an explanation from the ump which stated that there wasn't an intent to push his hand off of the bag, simply the 3rd baseman's momentum and therefore the play is legal and the runner is out. i heard this story second hand and couldnt believe it. how could they allow the runner to be pushed off of the bag - regardless of intent. why was the 3rd baseman even trying to tag howard?? all he had to do was touch the base - to which he was closer (howard slid head first the the outside part of the bag.
thoughts???

Based on your description, it's a good call. Runners who have "secure posession" of the base won't be pushed off by such a tag. Runners who don't have secure posession are liable to be called out.

johnnyg08 · #5 (**permalink**) Mon Jun 05, 2006, 10:13am

Kent Hrbek, Ron Gant. 1991 series. excellent video clip of "securing possession" of the base...or in that case...not securing possession of 1st base!

johnnyg08 · #6 (**permalink**) Mon Jun 05, 2006, 10:13am

Kent Hrbek, Ron Gant. 1991 series. excellent video clip of "securing possession" of the base...or in that case...not securing possession of 1st base!

#7 (**permalink**) Mon Jun 05, 2006, 10:34am

I saw this play on SportsCenter. Can anyone find a video of it online?

What about for the '91 incident?

I've tried Google, no luck.

johnnyg08 · #8 (**permalink**) Mon Jun 05, 2006, 10:37am

yes, it would be nice to see the current clip that is being discussed. lefty, i think the '91 incident was being compared to this current one from the phils/brewers game. anybody who scouts for Inside Edge, might have a clip of this game

Peruvian · #9 (**permalink**) Mon Jun 05, 2006, 09:49pm

I think the interpretation by Fitzpatrick stated that "if a runner going into a base does not have body control, he is out when a hard tag knocks him off the base." I think it's in hte 2005 BRD under "Runner."

Did he have body control going into the bag?

mrm21711 · #10 (**permalink**) Mon Jun 05, 2006, 10:56pm

What if it is a hard tag and he has control of the base? Call time and award him the base?

SanDiegoSteve · #11 (**permalink**) Mon Jun 05, 2006, 11:40pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrm21711

What if it is a hard tag and he has control of the base? Call time and award him the base?

Hey Tim!!! Where are you at on this one? This is just like the kid that got tagged in the nads and came off the base in pain. The out stands!!!

TussAgee11 · #12 (**permalink**) Tue Jun 06, 2006, 01:29am

Quote:

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

Hey Tim!!! Where are you at on this one? This is just like the kid that got tagged in the nads and came off the base in pain. The out stands!!!

Oh man. I'm awarding the kid home to compensate for his pain. Actually, I'll eject him. Teach him to wear a cup, lol.

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
Runner caused fielder to change direction??	WAZebra	Softball	4	Wed Mar 15, 2006 05:12pm
F1 as fielder and the LBR	Dakota	Softball	8	Sat Nov 20, 2004 09:28am
linebacker pushes linemen	jeffb	Football	4	Tue Oct 19, 2004 12:19am
Contact with fielder	harmbu	Baseball	14	Mon May 17, 2004 09:08am
Runner Interference With No Fielder Nearby	Dave Sirbu	Baseball	1	Sat Sep 02, 2000 04:55pm