Balk Or No Balk

[ss17]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

It's not what we don't know that gets us in trouble, it's what we know for cetain that just isn't so.

Can you really just pivot off of the back foot, and it's completely legal with a RHP to 1B??

The only reason I ask is because I have NEVER seen a pitcher do it, and it seems so much faster.

I guess I am having a hard time trying to say this correctly. I know a pitcher doesn't have to disengage from the rubber, but even when a pitcher jump turns, both feet come up in the air, and therefore his back foot does separate from the rubber.

If this is the case, can someone point to the rule book/case book where I can reference this point, because there would be a lot of coaches (and umpires) that would be stunned!!

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by ss17

Can you really just pivot off of the back foot, and it's completely legal with a RHP to 1B??

The only reason I ask is because I have NEVER seen a pitcher do it, and it seems so much faster.

I guess I am having a hard time trying to say this correctly. I know a pitcher doesn't have to disengage from the rubber, but even when a pitcher jump turns, both feet come up in the air, and therefore his back foot does separate from the rubber.

If this is the case, can someone point to the rule book/case book where I can reference this point, because there would be a lot of coaches (and umpires) that would be stunned!!

The rule says that he must step ahead of the throw. It does not require that the pivot foot come off the rubber when he does so.

Try it; you might not find it so easy. Remember that nothing can be moving toward home when you do it.

[johnnyg08]

Originally Posted by ss17

I guess I am having a hard time trying to say this correctly. I know a pitcher doesn't have to disengage from the rubber, but even when a pitcher jump turns, both feet come up in the air, and therefore his back foot does separate from the rubber.

You can't really think of it that way. Watch a week of MLB baseball. Then maybe you'll see what we're trying to point out to you. I seems like you're not understanding the rule properly.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by ss17

Can you really just pivot off of the back foot, and it's completely legal with a RHP to 1B??

Yes.

[ss17]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

Yes.

Can you point me to the rule book/case book??

I am just trying to figure this out, because this is against everything I have ever learned/heard.

Thanks

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by ss17

Can you point me to the rule book/case book??

I am just trying to figure this out, because this is against everything I have ever learned/heard.

Thanks

Did you also learn that the hands are part of the bat?

In general, if it's a baseball move, it's legal unless it's prohibited by rule. So it's a fool's errand to go hunting in the rule book to find a rule that makes something legal.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by ss17

Can you really just pivot off of the back foot, and it's completely legal with a RHP to 1B??

Yes. He does not have to step off the rubber in any way, shape, or form.

Originally Posted by ss17

The only reason I ask is because I have NEVER seen a pitcher do it, and it seems so much faster.

Well, I'm sure you have, because it is rare to see a big league pitcher step off before throwing to first. If you are trying to pick off a runner, why on earth would you want to tip him off by stepping back off the rubber first? You would never pick off a single runner that way. Duh.

Originally Posted by ss17

I guess I am having a hard time trying to say this correctly. I know a pitcher doesn't have to disengage from the rubber, but even when a pitcher jump turns, both feet come up in the air, and therefore his back foot does separate from the rubber.

Jump turns and jab steps are done while in contact with the rubber. The fact that the pivot foot separates from the rubber does not mean that they are considered "off the rubber." Off the rubber means that the pitcher has legally disengaged the rubber by stepping backwards off the rubber with his pivot foot prior to doing anything else. A pitcher need not do that before throwing or feinting to a base.

Originally Posted by ss17

If this is the case, can someone point to the rule book/case book where I can reference this point, because there would be a lot of coaches (and umpires) that would be stunned!!

As has been stated, if there is no rule to prohibit something, then it's considered legal. There is no need to make a list of legal activites in the rule book.

I seriously doubt any umpire would be stunned by the pitching rules, but I can see how many coaches might be. Most coaches (Sparky Anderson, UmpJM and Rich Ives excluded) don't make much of a study of the rules. They usually, like you are doing, go by what they think are the rules, or what they heard are the rules, or the myths they heard growing up on the playground (such as "the hands are part of the bat," or "tie goes to the runner").

Originally Posted by ss17

I am just trying to figure this out, because this is against everything I have ever learned/heard.

Then it's a good thing you came here and got an education!

[UmpJM]

Originally Posted by ss17

...

If this is the case, can someone point to the rule book/case book where I can reference this point, because there would be a lot of coaches (and umpires) that would be stunned!!

ss17,

From OBR Rule 8.01:

(c) At any time during the pitcher’s preliminary movements and until his natural pitching motion commits him to the pitch, he may throw to any base provided he steps directly toward such base before making the throw.

Any umpires who are "stunned" by this really ought to take a look at the rule book.

JM