Was this a Balk ? I called it a Balk.

[nickrego]

I have the Plate, HS Varsity.

Runner on 2nd base only.

Runner has a very big lead, as he is not being held on.

As the pitcher is coming set, he takes off for 3rd. Teammates are yelling runner. F4 is way over toward 1st, as if there were no runner. F6 is way over toward 3rd, as if there were no runner. Runner is 3/4 of the way to 3rd. Pitcher spins around and steps toward 2nd base, hesitates, and then throws the ball to second base. (don't ask me why)

Runner goes in to 3rd standing up. Ball is fielded by F8 to hold the runner.

As soon as I saw the Pitcher throw the ball, I called a Balk for throwing to an unoccupied base. The result is the same as if I hadn't called the balk, with the exception of scoring.

But was I correct ?

[phillips.alex]

you were incorrect, but it does not matter as the runner acquired the base legally. It is only illegal to throw to an unoccupied base if it is not an attempt to put out a runner. You can throw to a base the runner is going towards or leaving from without balking.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by phillips.alex

you were incorrect, but it does not matter as the runner acquired the base legally. It is only illegal to throw to an unoccupied base if it is not an attempt to put out a runner. You can throw to a base the runner is going towards or leaving from without balking.

The mistake here is to think that 2B is unoccupied. Just because the runner has taken off for 3B, his last legally acquired base is 2B. Thus, 2B IS occupied, and it is legal to throw there. The exception to the rule about throwing to an unoccupied base does not enter this case.

So the balk call was incorrect. However, once you made it, the ball was dead (FED rules, right?), and that runner could NOT have scored on the play. You would have awarded him 3B, and that would be a dead-ball award (no further advance possible, despite the dumb throw into CF).

Maybe I'm misinterpreting your remark about "scoring": maybe you mean that the advance to 3B would be scored as a balk rather than a stolen base...

Don't they teach pitchers to run at a trapped runner anymore?

[Tim C]

It was not a balk.

As noted second base was occupied at the time.

IIITBTSB

Regards,

[BlueLawyer]

Not to pile on, but . . .

I would not have balked him because the runner still "occupied" second base. One of the rules basics I was taught is that a runner owns a base until he legally owns the next one. Example: One out, R1, 1-2 count on the batter. R1 takes off to steal on the pitch. Batter swings and misses at a pitch in the dirt. R1 is now standing on second base, and the batter, seeing the third strike in the dirt, now takes off for first. I calmly say, "you're out." If he gets to the first base bag with a smile on his face, I then yell, "The batter is out! First base was occupied at the time of the pitch!" The batter's out because when the pitcher delivered the ball, R1 still occupied first base, even if R1 was two inches from second.

I also would not have balked him because he was throwing to a bag to make a play. Let's say your runner was at first and he took off. If your pitcher had thrown (otherwise legally) to first, would you have balked him? It's a common play where the runner leans, then goes, then the pitcher throws to first. No balk- just baseball.

Strikes and outs!

[nickrego]

Originally Posted by mbyron

Maybe I'm misinterpreting your remark about "scoring": maybe you mean that the advance to 3B would be scored as a balk rather than a stolen base...

Yes.

Charging the Pitcher with a Balk, instead of the Runner with a Stolen Base.

Fortunately, due to F8 playing his position properly, there is no way the Runner would have scored, if I hadn't called the balk.

[nickrego]

Originally Posted by Tim C

IIITBTSB

Regards,

Yeah, afterward IIITBTSB (which I firmly believe in) poped into my head.

[UmpJM]

Nick,

While I am usually reluctant to challenge a person's "firmly held beliefs", you might want to consider Jim Evans' take on the subject as recently related by a well-respected umpire, who also happens to be his association's 1st Vice President of Rules:

Originally Posted by Jim Evans

"You certianly CAN balk to second. The best example is to be in the set position and then 'flip' the ball back to second without stepping off."

JM

(Sorry, Tim. I just couldn't resist.)

[Rich]

Originally Posted by CoachJM

Nick,

While I am usually reluctant to challenge a person's "firmly held beliefs", you might want to consider Jim Evans' take on the subject as recently related by a well-respected umpire, who also happens to be his association's 1st Vice President of Rules:



JM

(Sorry, Tim. I just couldn't resist.)

Just the contrived exception that proves the rule.

[phillips.alex]

also, you can have the pitcher spin all the way around, past home and first, and then throw to second. This i have actually seen.

[UmpJM]

Originally Posted by phillips.alex

also, you can have the pitcher spin all the way around, past home and first, and then throw to second. This i have actually seen.

phillips.alex,

Perhaps I'm missing your point, but perhaps you could clarify your above comment in light of the following from the Approved Ruling at the end of OBR Rule 8.05:

...(b) With a runner on first base the pitcher may make a complete turn, without hesitating toward first, and throw to second. This is not to be interpreted as throwing to an unoccupied base.

JM

[SanDiegoSteve]

You can also balk to second base if you spin around and step towards 3rd while throwing to 2nd base. 8.05(c) and comment.

[TussAgee11]

What is IIITBTSB?

[bossman72]

"It is impossible to balk to second base."

[nickrego]

Originally Posted by TussAgee11

What is IIITBTSB?

It Is Impossible To Balk To Second Base