Balk Or No Balk

[doolok]

My first post...

Last night I was calling a game on the 14 year old field.

Runner on 1st, no outs, I'm standing somewhat behind the pitcher between 1st and 2nd..the pitcher is a RHP.

The pitcher comes set, looks over his shoulder, and then before stepping off the bag, throws the ball towards first. I call an obvious balk...

Apparently I was wrong?

What I've read is that a few things have to happen before the pitcher can make the throw to 1st..
a-he's gotta step off the bag, thus making him a fielder.
b-he has to step towards the base in which he's throwing to.

The coach argued that he can throw it anywhere he wants and it doesn't matter if he's on the bag. I told him that he has to step off the bag first before he does anything..it turned into a big ordeal and the coach was so-very-close to getting ejected by me.

What hacks me off is that it ended up going to some board members from these coaches, who I'm sure didn't get the full story, and those board members informed me and the umpire in chief that he doesn't have to step off the bag?

We use the utripp rules around here, and I've been pretty adamant about studying these rules, but this is just my 2nd year of calling.

I have no problem in admitting I made a mistake, if someone can just tell me what mistake I made? Was I wrong?

[johnnyg08]

If he throws to 1B, he doesn't have to step off. There's more to it, but he does have to throw to 1B if he's on the rubber...if he steps off, he doesn't have to throw over.

He can throw to any base for the purpose of making a play...(just keeping it simple for now)

[doolok]

So it doesn't matter if he comes set and never steps off the bag? He can still turn and throw to 1st?

[mbyron]

OK, first off the pitcher is in contact with the "pitcher's plate" or the rubber. There's no "bag" there.

Second, I don't know "utripp" rules, but I'm surmising that like a lot of league rules it's OBR with some safety modifications. If that's right:

Once the pitcher has come set, he can legally do only 3 things:

1. pitch to the batter
2. step and throw (or feint) to a base
3. legally disengage ("step off")

I can't follow your argument. At one point it sounds as if you said the pitcher didn't step ahead of the throw (you allow "b-he has to step towards the base in which he's throwing to."). If that's what you called, then you were correct: balk. All you have to say is "Coach, no step." If he doesn't know what that means, you can add "he has to step toward the base to which he's throwing."

On the other hand, you seem to have insisted to the coach that he had to step off first before throwing to a base ("I told him that he has to step off the bag first before he does anything"). That's wrong. The pitcher can step toward a base and throw directly from the rubber. In OBR he can do that from either the windup or the set position.

The relevant OBR rule is 8.05. You might wish to purchase a manual like the Jaksa/Roder manual, which does a terrific job explaining the rules. Here's a link to it.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by doolok

So it doesn't matter if he comes set and never steps off the bag? He can still turn and throw to 1st?

As long as the other requirements are met, then the pitcher needn't step off. After all, a lefty does this all the time, and no on has an issue with it.

And, it's called a pitcher's plate, or rubber. It's not the pitcher's bag.

[johnnyg08]

correct. as long as he steps to the base and throws to the base for the purpose of making a play. in fact, if he throws to 1B, he doesn't even have to come set...he can throw to 1B at any time. just not after he's committed himself to pitch...

[doolok]

Yeah it was pretty much a 2 part question now that I think about it.

I know that he was on the "rubber" (thanks) when he threw the ball, which is what I thought was a balk, so I was wrong there.

However, because of his body angle when he threw the ball, I can guarantee he did not step towards the base when he threw the ball.

The more I read about these rules, the more I figure out it was a balk for sure, but not for my reasoning.

Thanks for the link too..I'm ordering one as we speak.

[bfoster]

Originally Posted by mbyron

In OBR he can do that from either the windup or the set position.

If a RHP's windup usually consists of him stepping to the side with his free-foot, is there a good rule of thumb for distinguising between the start of his windup and his stepping to throw to first? I mean, even if his foot isn't turned and pointing towards first base, it seems that he would still be able to argue that a step to first base. It's like he'd have the option to throw to first or pitch with the same movement.

[johnnyg08]

In FED they can't throw to a base other than to pitch from the wind-up.

Under OBR, the pitcher can aruge whatever he wants...he must step directly to the base he's throwing in order to make a play on the runner. Otherwise it's a balk.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by bfoster

If a RHP's windup usually consists of him stepping to the side with his free-foot, is there a good rule of thumb for distinguising between the start of his windup and his stepping to throw to first? I mean, even if his foot isn't turned and pointing towards first base, it seems that he would still be able to argue that a step to first base. It's like he'd have the option to throw to first or pitch with the same movement.

What do his arms / body "look like" when he's going to pitch? What do they "look like" when he's throwing to first? It shouldn't be hard to distinguish this.

You can't just concentrate on one body part / rules issue. It's the entirety that makes it a balk or legal.

[justanotherblue]

Buy the Jim Evans Balk Video, it's the best video IMHO on the market for balks. You can find it at his web site. All your questions will be answered and then some. This is the same video he uses in his five week school. A must for all umpires.

[bossman72]

Originally Posted by doolok

Yeah it was pretty much a 2 part question now that I think about it.

I know that he was on the "rubber" (thanks) when he threw the ball, which is what I thought was a balk, so I was wrong there.

However, because of his body angle when he threw the ball, I can guarantee he did not step towards the base when he threw the ball.

The more I read about these rules, the more I figure out it was a balk for sure, but not for my reasoning.

Thanks for the link too..I'm ordering one as we speak.

This is a great video on balks from Jim Evans - it teaches you visually so you can see the different infractions and is great for a beginner like yourself!

Jim Evans Academy of Professional Umpiring Balk Video

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by bfoster

If a RHP's windup usually consists of him stepping to the side with his free-foot, is there a good rule of thumb for distinguising between the start of his windup and his stepping to throw to first?

1. Why is he pitching from the windup with R1?

2. I distinguish it like this: in the windup, he steps back with his free foot. In a pickoff, he steps forward with his free foot.

3. As Bob said: watch his whole body. If you can't tell what he's doing and he throws over, it's probably a balk for simulating a pitch.

[ss17]

Can someone please clarify for me...

Pitchers can either step off and throw, or they can "jump turn." As a coach, I'm not familiar with all of the umpire lingo, but I am trying to figure out. When you guys say disengage, I am assuming you are talking about the step off move.

When you guys are saying that he must step toward the base, does that mean both feet must go to the base?? I only say this because it is sounding that the pitcher can pivot off his backfoot, still be engaged with the rubber, and still legally make a play on the runner. I know that is not the case, so can someone please clarify??

Thanks

[SethPDX]

He only needs to step with one foot. He can pivot with his, well, pivot foot (the one on the rubber), then step toward a base with his non-pivot foot (or free foot), then throw, and it's legal.