Can the Ball Change Possession during a Dead Ball?

[bfoster]

I imagine this will be an easy question. It kind of goes back to the hidden ball trick.

I know that the hidden ball trick can not work after a dead ball. However, I was also pretty sure that it was an infraction for the ball to change possession from the pitcher to another fielder under time-out or dead ball. But, after scanning through my NFHS playbook, I don't see anything regarding that and I haven't found anything online. Now, I'm not sure where I picked that up. I was pretty sure that I had read that in baseball rules at some point.

So, is there any rule that says that the ball can not change possession or be transferred to a different defensive player under time-out?

[Ump153]

Time is out on a foul ball. If F3 picks it up, can he throw it back to the pitcher? Yes? Hmmmmmmmmm.

[Ump Rube]

I am not really sure what you mean by a change of possession. In baseball, unlike every other sport, ONLY the defense can have possession of the ball. I think what you are referring to is the pitcher throwing the ball to another play while the ball is dead. He can do this if he wants to, but the ball can be live again (MMMWAHAAAA!) until it is secured by the pitcher while he is engaging the rubber.

[bfoster]

Yeah, I just mean can the ball be transferred to a different defensive player under time-out? Ump153 makes a good point, and I'm not seeing anything, now, that would indicate that this kind of transfer CAN'T occur. I was just SURE that I had read somewhere that it wasn't allowed. So, I thought I'd at least ask the question, even if it was stupid, just to see if I could figure out where it came from.

[Bishopcolle]

If the ball is dead (or better phrased, we have "Time"), then simply have the fielder get the ball back to the pitcher...as previously stated, nothing can happen until the batter is in the batter's box, the pitcher has engaged the rubber, and PU says "Play."

[Steven Tyler]

Originally Posted by Bishopcolle

If the ball is dead (or better phrased, we have "Time"), then simply have the fielder get the ball back to the pitcher...as previously stated, nothing can happen until the batter is in the batter's box, the pitcher has engaged the rubber, and PU says "Play."

And the catcher is in his box.......

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by bfoster

Yeah, I just mean can the ball be transferred to a different defensive player under time-out? Ump153 makes a good point, and I'm not seeing anything, now, that would indicate that this kind of transfer CAN'T occur. I was just SURE that I had read somewhere that it wasn't allowed. So, I thought I'd at least ask the question, even if it was stupid, just to see if I could figure out where it came from.

Nope, no such rule. This isn't even one of the top 40 baseball rules myths.

[ozzy6900]

Originally Posted by bfoster

Yeah, I just mean can the ball be transferred to a different defensive player under time-out? Ump153 makes a good point, and I'm not seeing anything, now, that would indicate that this kind of transfer CAN'T occur. I was just SURE that I had read somewhere that it wasn't allowed. So, I thought I'd at least ask the question, even if it was stupid, just to see if I could figure out where it came from.

Please do us all a favor? If you ever find the person that told you this, give him a slap in the back of the head and keep slapping him until he understands that this is not a rule!

[chicago11]

which way is the possession arrow pointing?

[jicecone]

So its kind of like "kissing your sister."

There the fielder stands with a baseball in their hand or glove and it does'nt mean anything because, the ball is not made live until you transfer possesion back to the pitcher so we can get on with the game.

[johnnyg08]

correct...once you call time, we don't resume play until the pitcher has the ball and engages the rubber, if he engages w/o the ball, we have a balk.

The Evans Diamond Challenge DVD has the hidden ball trick example in the DVD...it's a good example too.

[Ump Rube]

Originally Posted by johnnyg08

correct...once you call time, we don't resume play until the pitcher has the ball and engages the rubber, if he engages w/o the ball, we have a balk.

There has been a discussion brewing on another forum regarding this call. The consensus seems to be that this is a no-play, not a balk. Specifically, UIC cannot legally place the ball back in play until the pitcher has possession and engages. And with out the ball being in play no balk call can be made. No one has an advantage or a dis-advantage (no out made, no steal made). What say you?

[UmpJM]

Originally Posted by johnnyg08

correct...once you call time, we don't resume play until the pitcher has the ball and engages the rubber, if he engages w/o the ball, we have a balk.

....

johnny,

C'mon. How do you have a balk if the ball is not in play? (Answer: you don't!)

If he engages the rubber without the ball while the ball is dead all you've got is a dead ball - still.

JM

[Tim C]

johnnyg08:

Please refer to UmpJM and Ump Rube as they are correct.

It is nuttin' honey.

[Welpe]

There can only be a change of possession during a live ball and the defense must have "clean hands" prior to the CoP. If there is a foul by team A prior to the CoP and a foul by team B after, team B may decline the penalty and keep the ball.