Can the Ball Change Possession during a Dead Ball?

[Welpe]

There can only be a change of possession during a live ball and the defense must have "clean hands" prior to the CoP. If there is a foul by team A prior to the CoP and a foul by team B after, team B may decline the penalty and keep the ball.

[jicecone]

Originally Posted by Welpe

There can only be a change of possession during a live ball and the defense must have "clean hands" prior to the CoP. If there is a foul by team A prior to the CoP and a foul by team B after, team B may decline the penalty and keep the ball.

So this COULD possibly result in a 30 yard gain but, only if your live ball become dead, correct.

[Tim C]

It seems we cover this each year. Since we do it must be a confusing situation.

I believe that many recognize that it is a balk to do something that simulates a pitch . . . HOWEVER . . . after "Time" has been called or the ball has gone to dead ball territory an umpire cannot put the ball in play until the pitcher has the ball in hand, has contacted the pitcher's plate, the batter is in the box (and some will comment on the catcher's in his area) and all is ready for the direction "PLAY".

If an umpire, in error, puts the ball in play without the pitcher having the ball in his possession it is simple a "do over". There is no balk.

[johnnyg08]

I think you're missing the "resuming play" portion of my post. When we "resume" play, we have a balk...if the pitcher represents that the ball is in his glove, he is on or astride the rubber, umpire points the ball back in play, the ball is not in the pitcher's glove or hand, I'm pretty sure that's not legal.

[Welpe]

Johnny, if the pitcher does not have possession of the ball, you cannot legally make the ball live. If he toes the rubber without the ball and the umpire declares "Play!", only to find out the ball is somewhere else, the ball was not made live legally so it is still dead.

[jwwashburn]

Originally Posted by Welpe

Johnny, if the pitcher does not have possession of the ball, you cannot legally make the ball live. If he toes the rubber without the ball and the umpire declares "Play!", only to find out the ball is somewhere else, the ball was not made live legally so it is still dead.

Actually, that would be a balk in FED wouldn't it? ...I think ORB, as well.

[Matt]

Originally Posted by jwwashburn

Actually, that would be a balk in FED wouldn't it? ...I think ORB, as well.

Nope. You can't have a balk on a dead ball. You can't make the ball live unless the pitcher has the ball. Therefore, this cannot be a balk.

[Ump Rube]

Originally Posted by johnnyg08

I think you're missing the "resuming play" portion of my post. When we "resume" play, we have a balk...if the pitcher represents that the ball is in his glove, he is on or astride the rubber, umpire points the ball back in play, the ball is not in the pitcher's glove or hand, I'm pretty sure that's not legal.

You are correct something is not legal. Only problem is that putting the ball in play is what is not legal at this point...

Originally Posted by FED 5-1-4

After a dead ball, the ball becomes alive when it is held be the pitcher in a legal pitching position, provided the pitcher has engaged the pitcher's plate, the batter and catcher are in their respective boxes, and the umpire calls "Play" and give the appropriate signal.

All criteria have to be met for the ball to live again.

[johnnyg08]

got it...thanks welpe, rube, and tim c

[waltjp]

Originally Posted by Welpe

There can only be a change of possession during a live ball and the defense must have "clean hands" prior to the CoP. If there is a foul by team A prior to the CoP and a foul by team B after, team B may decline the penalty and keep the ball.

I made the same mistake. I read the title and thought it was a football thread.