Short Right Field.

[BretMan]

Had a coach come out to me as I was in short right just three days ago and it was a first for me.

He wanted to give me grief for not having called what he thought was a balk about five batters prior to the last one of the inning. He had run his mouth about pretty good when it happened, but no one from his team bothered to ask for time and come out then to talk about it. Generally, I'll explain a call to any coach who is civil about it, but ignore random yelling across the field about a call.

It just so happens that this particular coach was coaching first base, so he was kind of in proximity to right field to begin with. He was also the assistant coach for this school, though he is a well-known head coach for other area travel teams, a well known pain in the rear and a bit of a legend in his own mind.

Our coversation went like this:

Coach: Are you gonna call that?

Me: Call what?

Coach: The balk.

Me: "The balk" for what exactly?

Coach: For not coming to a stop.

Me: Are you the head coach?

Coach: No.

Me: If the head coach has a question, he can ask for time and come see me.

Coach: Are you gonna call that!?

Me: If the head coach has a question, he can ask for time and come see me.

Coach: Grumble, grumble, grumble...(returns to dugout).

Okay, I was kind of a hard *** and that usually isn't my style. But I don't feel it's appropriate for an assistant coach to come out between innings and vent about a judgment call that happened five batters ago. Maybe if this guy's reputation as being a tool hadn't preceded him, I might have handled it differently.

Same game, a couple of innings later. Following a close play at first, the head coach does request time, approaches me, I walk to meet him hafway (kind of scratching my head as to why he is coming out on a routine- though close- judgnment call where I was set up right on the play and he was in the third base dugout, about 100 feet away).

I then get the dumbest question from him I've had all year- so far.

Coach: (With his best "I'm astounded and shocked by that call" look on his face) Did you call him safe?

Me: Did you see me hold both arms out to my side?

Coach: Yeah.

Me: Did you hear me loudly yell "safe!"?

Coach: Yeah.

Me: Then why are you out here asking me a question that you already know the answer to?

Coach: Grumble, grumble, grumble (returns to dugout).

I'm not really sure what this guy was getting at, other than maybe just trying to get under my skin. Certainly, he couldn't have any real expectation that I was going to tell him anything differently than that I had the runner safe, or entertain any notion that I would possibly reverse the call.

I guess that it was just Stupid Question Day at the ballpark and somebody forgot to tell me!

[johnnyg08]

wonder what he would've said if you'd have answered "no" to his "did you call him safe?" question...it would have to be "well, why did you signal safe?" your answer...grin

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by johnnyg08

wonder what he would've said if you'd have answered "no" to his "did you call him safe?" question...it would have to be "well, why did you signal safe?" your answer...grin

Wouldn't that be inappropriate?

Peace

[johnnyg08]

very. but a bit funny

[SethPDX]

Originally Posted by cc6

Well, it can't be a story if I said that I "would". If you don't want to share anything productive, please don't post in this thread. Unprofessional? No. I'm just not going to let a rat argue a judgment call without a little workout first.

I was going to think of something unproductive to say, but others have beaten me to it. The fact that you really would do this speaks volumes about your level of professionalism, something umpires here have tried to point out time and time again.

BTW, wanting to ask about a play does not by itself make a coach a rat. I don't use that term for all coaches because most of them are well behaved.

[cc6]

Originally Posted by SethPDX

I was going to think of something unproductive to say, but others have beaten me to it.

Yes they certainly did. You acknowledge that a few people already made unproductive comments. I'm glad you chose not to join in.

Originally Posted by SethPDX

The fact that you really would do this speaks volumes about your level of professionalism, something umpires here have tried to point out time and time again.

What was unprofessional about what I wrote? For all anyone knows I'm doing my job (checking the base, hustling to right field), and the coach is being the aggressor.

Originally Posted by SethPDX

BTW, wanting to ask about a play does not by itself make a coach a rat. I don't use that term for all coaches because most of them are well behaved.

Well, arguing a judgment call is uncalled for in my humble opinion. Judgment calls cannot be argued. If he wants to ask about a rule, then fine, but coach don't come all the way out here to tell me I made a bad call.

[Matt]

Originally Posted by cc6

What was unprofessional about what I wrote? For all anyone knows I'm doing my job (checking the base, hustling to right field), and the coach is being the aggressor.

You've already established that you are not doing your job and are baiting the coach. You've made your intentions clear to us, and with your comment to the hypothetical manager, you made your motivations clear to him. Even without that, it's still unprofessional. Just because you don't get caught doesn't mean that you're any less wrong.

Originally Posted by cc6

Well, arguing a judgment call is uncalled for in my humble opinion.

Another incorrect statement. Baseball, like societies, has standards of acceptable conduct, and also like societies, those standards vary from group to group. Even with those verying standards, I have yet to see an area of competitive baseball in which all arguing of judgment calls is verboten, either formally or informally.

Originally Posted by cc6

Judgment calls cannot be argued.

Repeating a falsehood does not make it true.

[SethPDX]

Originally Posted by cc6

What was unprofessional about what I wrote? For all anyone knows I'm doing my job (checking the base, hustling to right field), and the coach is being the aggressor.

Asking him, "Did you have a nice run?" sounds like bating, which is something to be avoided.

Arguments happen, even arguments about judgement calls. Handling coaches is part of your job. By now I have had so many come out to me that I can predict when they're coming and how I am going to handle the situation. I don't even get irritated or frustrated with them very much anymore because I know this is just another part of the game I have to take care of. A difficult part, but one I have to do well because umpiring is as much about handling people as rules and mechanics.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by johnnyg08

very. but a bit funny

Of course it was funny. And if he was going to ask such a stupid question, then he deserved the answer he got. JMHO.

Peace

[briancurtin]

Originally Posted by BretMan

I then get the dumbest question from him I've had all year- so far.

Coach: (With his best "I'm astounded and shocked by that call" look on his face) Did you call him safe?

Me: Did you see me hold both arms out to my side?

Coach: Yeah.

Me: Did you hear me loudly yell "safe!"?

Coach: Yeah.

Me: Then why are you out here asking me a question that you already know the answer to?

Coach: Grumble, grumble, grumble (returns to dugout).

I'm not really sure what this guy was getting at, other than maybe just trying to get under my skin. Certainly, he couldn't have any real expectation that I was going to tell him anything differently than that I had the runner safe, or entertain any notion that I would possibly reverse the call.

I guess that it was just Stupid Question Day at the ballpark and somebody forgot to tell me!

That is way too much talking.


Coach: (With his best "I'm astounded and shocked by that call" look on his face) Did you call him safe?
Me: Yes

[JRutledge]

I think the moral of the story, is do what ever works for you. I hear people say not to say anything, do not piss off the coach, say a lot, do not care what the coach says, be direct, do not upset the coach.

If I have learned anything in my career, what works for me will not automatically work for someone else.

I have learned that my style works for some and does not work for many. I did not give all the comments in this situation and it really does not matter. The coach did exactly what I wanted him to do, go away and know that he could not come out there with some BS. He clearly got the message to the point he had to ask my partner what he thought. I will likely have that coach again and the next time he will know where I stand. And it is also likely he will not be at that school in a year. And what he thinks of me ultimately is not going to change what I have done. I have accomplished a lot despite what one coach that my not even win a playoff game thinks of me. I just do not live in that place where I need to please someone and say all the right things because they ask and behave in what I see as an unprofessional manner. As far as I am concerned if I am not raising my voice, using foul language/curse words, or threatening them with bodily harm, I am not violating any rules or standards. If you ask me a question and you it is a dumb question, I might not say it is a dumb question, but I might make you feel as if your comments are dumb. But this works for me and I am fine with it.

Peace

[BretMan]

Originally Posted by briancurtin

That is way too much talking.

Coach: (With his best "I'm astounded and shocked by that call" look on his face) Did you call him safe?
Me: Yes

Yeah, I don't really disagree with that. In retrospect and with hindsight being 20/20, that is what I thought I probably shoiud have said...just say "yes"!

But in the heat of the moment and given that these two coaches had been a bit of a pain all day, right then I wanted to get a point across that I had enough of their "games" or whatever it was they thought they were trying to pull. Sometimes, every stupid question deserves a stupid answer...

My usual style is not to "one up" the coach, give a smart *** answer, get in the last word or spout some witty quip. I'm usually more of a "yes", "no", explain my ruling in five-words-or-less kind of guy.

"Yes" would work. If he asks, "Why?, something simple like, "The runner touched the bag first", should cover it.

To ask for time, walk across the field, then ask if I called the runner "safe" when he clearly saw and heard me do so is kind pointless and I hope that my answers to him made my point- I won't put up with pointless interuptions.