What would you call?

[PeteBooth]

[QUOTE]

Originally Posted by TwoBits

That's what was called (eventually). My partner, a rookie, made a no call since "runner has a right to the base line". Defensive coach was livid, of course, even more so because his second baseman was rolling on the ground in pain. I took my partner to the side, straightened him out, and had him change the call.

I disagree with this approach.

We all have to learn sometime. if you want to "straighten him out" then do so in POST GAME, NOT during the game.

Now, throughout the remainder of this game and perhaps future games as well, whenever there is something controversial involving a call by this umpire, BOTH coaches are going to request TIME and ask YOU to straighten out.

A rookie has to LEARN how to deal with managers even if that means an EJ. if the rookie called TIME and then asked for your opinion is one thing but for you to take the rookie aside and straigten him out is quite another.

Also, how do you know that the ball was NOT deflected off of F1 first. In this play it would not have made any difference since another fielder EVEN though the ball was deflected had a chance to make a play, however, the point is WE do not know what another umpire sees.

Case and Point:

I had a tournament game this past weekend. B1 hits a slow roller up the first base line and the ball TOUCHED him (way out of the box area where it's customary to call FOUL) . I call TIME, that's interference and B1 is out. Other runners return to TOI bases (It was a FED game)

Every-one (except F2 who saw it as well and the BR) is looking around thinking WTF until I went and explained what happened. The point is there are many calls which on the surface appear to be "wrong" until the facts are told.

Rookies have to learn

Pete Booth

[Rich Ives]

[QUOTE=PeteBooth;594462]

I disagree with this approach.

We all have to learn sometime. if you want to "straighten him out" then do so in POST GAME, NOT during the game.

Now, throughout the remainder of this game and perhaps future games as well, whenever there is something controversial involving a call by this umpire, BOTH coaches are going to request TIME and ask YOU to straighten out.

A rookie has to LEARN how to deal with managers even if that means an EJ. if the rookie called TIME and then asked for your opinion is one thing but for you to take the rookie aside and straigten him out is quite another.

Also, how do you know that the ball was NOT deflected off of F1 first. In this play it would not have made any difference since another fielder EVEN though the ball was deflected had a chance to make a play, however, the point is WE do not know what another umpire sees.

Case and Point:

I had a tournament game this past weekend. B1 hits a slow roller up the first base line and the ball TOUCHED him (way out of the box area where it's customary to call FOUL) . I call TIME, that's interference and B1 is out. Other runners return to TOI bases (It was a FED game)

Every-one (except F2 who saw it as well and the BR) is looking around thinking WTF until I went and explained what happened. The point is there are many calls which on the surface appear to be "wrong" until the facts are told.

Rookies have to learn

Pete Booth

So if both managers and you (and most likely Grandma in the upper deck in right field) know it's bogus (it's a rule misapplication, not a judgenent call also) you'll just clam up and let the rookie suffer? You don't think that reflects on you? You don't think one of the managers (or both) will ask you after the game why you didn't fix it?

[Matt]

Originally Posted by Rich Ives

You don't think one of the managers (or both) will ask you after the game why you didn't fix it?

Then you ask them why they didn't file a protest or ask him to ask for help.

You stick your nose in your partner's call, you cut his legs out from under him. It's that simple.

[DG]

I have INT also, in both cases, but let's discuss the bigger question that has been raised here.

Let's say you are BU, and with R1 stealing the batter interferes with catcher's throw. PU properly calls INT, then calls R1 out and leaves the batter at the plate. No one argues, clearly the defense is better off so if the defensive coach knows the rule he is not saying. Offensive coach clearly does not know the rule and PU does not either, but you the BU do.

No judgment call involved here, clearly rule mis-application. And some will stick that info in their pocket and post game this?

[Rich Ives]

Originally Posted by Matt

Then you ask them why they didn't file a protest or ask him to ask for help.

You stick your nose in your partner's call, you cut his legs out from under him. It's that simple.

In the OP the poster initiated the consultation on his own. Do you really think the offended manager, knowing the rule, wouldn't have initiated an "ask for help" request?

In the OP it got fixed before it got to the protest point. A protest wasn't necessary.

Would you let a partner get away with a "strike two- - you're out" call?

It's that simple.

[Matt]

Originally Posted by Rich Ives

In the OP the poster initiated the consultation on his own.

Which was absolutely wrong.

Originally Posted by Rich Ives

Do you really think the offended manager, knowing the rule, wouldn't have initiated an "ask for help" request?

The OP makes no mention of whether that manager knew the rule or not. I've seen plenty of times where knowledgeable managers have chosen not to pursue a legitimate issue after perfunctory argument.

Originally Posted by Rich Ives

In the OP it got fixed before it got to the protest point. A protest wasn't necessary.

Oh, yes, it was.

Originally Posted by Rich Ives

Would you let a partner get away with a "strike two- - you're out" call?

I wouldn't have to. If it was a case of a missed count, then he can rectify it--it's his count, and if he wants my input, he can ask for it. If it was a case of knowingly calling an out with two strikes, it's going to get to the stage where I am required by rule to provide input. If, by some happenstance, the offense doesn't protest, I'm not saying jack.

[PeteBooth]

[QUOTE]

Originally Posted by Rich Ives

Rich it's not called "letting the rookie suffer" and NO it does not reflect on me.

There are many rulings in which EVERYONE sees something that they think is BLATENT EXCEPT the particpants involved as in the example that happened to me over this past weekend.

NO-ONE but me F2 and the BR KNEW that the ball TOUCHED the BR.

Rookies have to learn. Now if I am 100% CERTAIN of something I will do my best to get the rookies attention but NO I will not AUTOMATICALLY step in until he asks me to.

IMO, once the 'floodgates" open and it becomes acceptable for umpires to start over-ruling one another the games will become nightmares.

Pete Booth