The Official Forum

The Official Forum (https://forum.officiating.com/)
-   Baseball (https://forum.officiating.com/baseball/)
-   -   What would you call? (https://forum.officiating.com/baseball/52742-what-would-you-call.html)

TwoBits Mon Apr 06, 2009 01:48pm

What would you call?
 
Situation: R1, outs don't matter. R1 running on the pitch, batter grounds the ball through just past the pitcher. F4 was was cheating toward second base, reactinig to the running R1, and attempts to field the ball approximately five feet from the base on the first base side. The ball, F4, and R1 all get there at the same time, resulting in a huge collision between F4 and R1 with the ball rolling in shallow center. The collision, as hard as it was, was not judged malicious.

Matt Mon Apr 06, 2009 02:03pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by TwoBits (Post 594394)
Situation: R1, outs don't matter. R1 running on the pitch, batter grounds the ball through just past the pitcher. F4 was was cheating toward second base, reactinig to the running R1, and attempts to field the ball approximately five feet from the base on the first base side. The ball, F4, and R1 all get there at the same time, resulting in a huge collision between F4 and R1 with the ball rolling in shallow center. The collision, as hard as it was, was not judged malicious.

Too easy.

Interference on R1--he's out, BR on first.

soundedlikeastrike Mon Apr 06, 2009 02:08pm

Ditto: interference on R1

TwoBits Mon Apr 06, 2009 02:15pm

That's what was called (eventually). My partner, a rookie, made a no call since "runner has a right to the base line". Defensive coach was livid, of course, even more so because his second baseman was rolling on the ground in pain. I took my partner to the side, straightened him out, and had him change the call. Offensive team was fine with the change since they knew it was the correct call.

Followup question: Same situation, this time R1 legally slides into second base but still contacting F4. Same call?

Matt Mon Apr 06, 2009 02:27pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by TwoBits (Post 594417)
That's what was called (eventually). My partner, a rookie, made a no call since "runner has a right to the base line". Defensive coach was livid, of course, even more so because his second baseman was rolling on the ground in pain. I took my partner to the side, straightened him out, and had him change the call. Offensive team was fine with the change since they knew it was the correct call.

Followup question: Same situation, this time R1 legally slides into second base but still contacting F4. Same call?

Yep, if I'm envisioning the change in scenario correctly.

kylejt Mon Apr 06, 2009 02:37pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by TwoBits (Post 594417)
I took my partner to the side, straightened him out, and had him change the call.

Whoa!

Did he ask for your help? The manager properly protest the ruling?

Kevin Finnerty Mon Apr 06, 2009 03:02pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by kylejt (Post 594437)
Whoa!

Did he ask for your help? The manager properly protest the ruling?

As much as it killed me, last week, I let a horses--- call by a partner stand, because he refused to ask me for help. It was the most blatant kick I have ever seen, and it was hard to walk away when he refused to ask me for help. I have never just straightened him out and changed a call without being asked.

archangel Mon Apr 06, 2009 03:30pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by kylejt (Post 594437)
Whoa!
Did he ask for your help? The manager properly protest the ruling?


I have mixed feelings on this.
Since the OP said "rookie partner", I'm assuming its a lower level game. We can agree that when we make a mistake, we now "own" it, hopefully insuring it wont happen to us again.

So whats the best way to handle this? Either let the rookie eat it, and face the HC's anger to the point of possible ejection (dont recall anything about the coach requesting help on the call), knowing that we look good or bad as a crew.....or giving the rookie some unasked for info? (seems easy to do during the injury/deadball.

Other posts talk of "signals" from one to another when info is available. Would a rookie in this sich remember the signal EVEN IF gone over in pregame?

Now, if this was with an experienced partner, well....thats another matter.

jdmara Mon Apr 06, 2009 03:33pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kevin Finnerty (Post 594453)
As much as it killed me, last week, I let a horses--- call by a partner stand, because he refused to ask me for help. It was the most blatant kick I have ever seen, and it was hard to walk away when he refused to ask me for help. I have never just straightened him out and changed a call without being asked.

You wouldn't approach him for an obvious, critical misapplication of the rules? I guess I would if I felt that was what happened :o Maybe I'm in the minority

-Josh

Matt Mon Apr 06, 2009 03:36pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by jdmara (Post 594457)
You wouldn't approach him for an obvious, critical misapplication of the rules? I guess I would if I felt that was what happened :o Maybe I'm in the minority

-Josh

I hope you're in the minority.

There are acceptable, established means by which a misapplication of a rule can be rectified. Throwing a partner under the bus is not one of them.

PeteBooth Mon Apr 06, 2009 03:59pm

[QUOTE]
Quote:

Originally Posted by TwoBits (Post 594417)
That's what was called (eventually). My partner, a rookie, made a no call since "runner has a right to the base line". Defensive coach was livid, of course, even more so because his second baseman was rolling on the ground in pain. I took my partner to the side, straightened him out, and had him change the call.

I disagree with this approach.

We all have to learn sometime. if you want to "straighten him out" then do so in POST GAME, NOT during the game.

Now, throughout the remainder of this game and perhaps future games as well, whenever there is something controversial involving a call by this umpire, BOTH coaches are going to request TIME and ask YOU to straighten out.

A rookie has to LEARN how to deal with managers even if that means an EJ. if the rookie called TIME and then asked for your opinion is one thing but for you to take the rookie aside and straigten him out is quite another.

Also, how do you know that the ball was NOT deflected off of F1 first. In this play it would not have made any difference since another fielder EVEN though the ball was deflected had a chance to make a play, however, the point is WE do not know what another umpire sees.

Case and Point:

I had a tournament game this past weekend. B1 hits a slow roller up the first base line and the ball TOUCHED him (way out of the box area where it's customary to call FOUL) . I call TIME, that's interference and B1 is out. Other runners return to TOI bases (It was a FED game)

Every-one (except F2 who saw it as well and the BR) is looking around thinking WTF until I went and explained what happened. The point is there are many calls which on the surface appear to be "wrong" until the facts are told.

Rookies have to learn

Pete Booth

Rich Ives Mon Apr 06, 2009 04:11pm

[QUOTE=PeteBooth;594462]
Quote:


I disagree with this approach.

We all have to learn sometime. if you want to "straighten him out" then do so in POST GAME, NOT during the game.

Now, throughout the remainder of this game and perhaps future games as well, whenever there is something controversial involving a call by this umpire, BOTH coaches are going to request TIME and ask YOU to straighten out.

A rookie has to LEARN how to deal with managers even if that means an EJ. if the rookie called TIME and then asked for your opinion is one thing but for you to take the rookie aside and straigten him out is quite another.

Also, how do you know that the ball was NOT deflected off of F1 first. In this play it would not have made any difference since another fielder EVEN though the ball was deflected had a chance to make a play, however, the point is WE do not know what another umpire sees.

Case and Point:

I had a tournament game this past weekend. B1 hits a slow roller up the first base line and the ball TOUCHED him (way out of the box area where it's customary to call FOUL) . I call TIME, that's interference and B1 is out. Other runners return to TOI bases (It was a FED game)

Every-one (except F2 who saw it as well and the BR) is looking around thinking WTF until I went and explained what happened. The point is there are many calls which on the surface appear to be "wrong" until the facts are told.

Rookies have to learn

Pete Booth
So if both managers and you (and most likely Grandma in the upper deck in right field) know it's bogus (it's a rule misapplication, not a judgenent call also) you'll just clam up and let the rookie suffer? You don't think that reflects on you? You don't think one of the managers (or both) will ask you after the game why you didn't fix it?

Matt Mon Apr 06, 2009 04:13pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rich Ives (Post 594466)
You don't think one of the managers (or both) will ask you after the game why you didn't fix it?

Then you ask them why they didn't file a protest or ask him to ask for help.

You stick your nose in your partner's call, you cut his legs out from under him. It's that simple.

beachbum Mon Apr 06, 2009 04:20pm

I am confused on this play. If this same senario happened at home, I would have nothing. The catcher is entitled to the base line or plate with the ball and the base runner is entitled to the base line. Since everything happened at the same time, i would just call the play, either safe or out.

Explain why this would not be the case at second??? Base runner in the base line has a right to his path and the fielder would have his rights with the ball.

remember I'm fairly new..so be easy on me

Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. Mon Apr 06, 2009 04:22pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by TwoBits (Post 594417)
That's what was called (eventually). My partner, a rookie, made a no call since "runner has a right to the base line". Defensive coach was livid, of course, even more so because his second baseman was rolling on the ground in pain. I took my partner to the side, straightened him out, and had him change the call. Offensive team was fine with the change since they knew it was the correct call.

Followup question: Same situation, this time R1 legally slides into second base but still contacting F4. Same call?


TwoBits:

I have a question for you: Who was the BU on this play, you or your partner?

MTD, Sr.


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:08am.



Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.3.0 RC1