What would you call?

[TwoBits]

Situation: R1, outs don't matter. R1 running on the pitch, batter grounds the ball through just past the pitcher. F4 was was cheating toward second base, reactinig to the running R1, and attempts to field the ball approximately five feet from the base on the first base side. The ball, F4, and R1 all get there at the same time, resulting in a huge collision between F4 and R1 with the ball rolling in shallow center. The collision, as hard as it was, was not judged malicious.

[Matt]

Originally Posted by TwoBits

Situation: R1, outs don't matter. R1 running on the pitch, batter grounds the ball through just past the pitcher. F4 was was cheating toward second base, reactinig to the running R1, and attempts to field the ball approximately five feet from the base on the first base side. The ball, F4, and R1 all get there at the same time, resulting in a huge collision between F4 and R1 with the ball rolling in shallow center. The collision, as hard as it was, was not judged malicious.

Too easy.

Interference on R1--he's out, BR on first.

[soundedlikeastrike]

Ditto: interference on R1

[TwoBits]

That's what was called (eventually). My partner, a rookie, made a no call since "runner has a right to the base line". Defensive coach was livid, of course, even more so because his second baseman was rolling on the ground in pain. I took my partner to the side, straightened him out, and had him change the call. Offensive team was fine with the change since they knew it was the correct call.

Followup question: Same situation, this time R1 legally slides into second base but still contacting F4. Same call?

[Matt]

Originally Posted by TwoBits

That's what was called (eventually). My partner, a rookie, made a no call since "runner has a right to the base line". Defensive coach was livid, of course, even more so because his second baseman was rolling on the ground in pain. I took my partner to the side, straightened him out, and had him change the call. Offensive team was fine with the change since they knew it was the correct call.

Followup question: Same situation, this time R1 legally slides into second base but still contacting F4. Same call?

Yep, if I'm envisioning the change in scenario correctly.

[kylejt]

Originally Posted by TwoBits

I took my partner to the side, straightened him out, and had him change the call.

Whoa!

Did he ask for your help? The manager properly protest the ruling?

[Kevin Finnerty]

Originally Posted by kylejt

Whoa!

Did he ask for your help? The manager properly protest the ruling?

As much as it killed me, last week, I let a horses--- call by a partner stand, because he refused to ask me for help. It was the most blatant kick I have ever seen, and it was hard to walk away when he refused to ask me for help. I have never just straightened him out and changed a call without being asked.

[archangel]

Originally Posted by kylejt

Whoa!
Did he ask for your help? The manager properly protest the ruling?

I have mixed feelings on this.
Since the OP said "rookie partner", I'm assuming its a lower level game. We can agree that when we make a mistake, we now "own" it, hopefully insuring it wont happen to us again.

So whats the best way to handle this? Either let the rookie eat it, and face the HC's anger to the point of possible ejection (dont recall anything about the coach requesting help on the call), knowing that we look good or bad as a crew.....or giving the rookie some unasked for info? (seems easy to do during the injury/deadball.

Other posts talk of "signals" from one to another when info is available. Would a rookie in this sich remember the signal EVEN IF gone over in pregame?

Now, if this was with an experienced partner, well....thats another matter.

[PeteBooth]

[QUOTE]

Originally Posted by TwoBits

That's what was called (eventually). My partner, a rookie, made a no call since "runner has a right to the base line". Defensive coach was livid, of course, even more so because his second baseman was rolling on the ground in pain. I took my partner to the side, straightened him out, and had him change the call.

I disagree with this approach.

We all have to learn sometime. if you want to "straighten him out" then do so in POST GAME, NOT during the game.

Now, throughout the remainder of this game and perhaps future games as well, whenever there is something controversial involving a call by this umpire, BOTH coaches are going to request TIME and ask YOU to straighten out.

A rookie has to LEARN how to deal with managers even if that means an EJ. if the rookie called TIME and then asked for your opinion is one thing but for you to take the rookie aside and straigten him out is quite another.

Also, how do you know that the ball was NOT deflected off of F1 first. In this play it would not have made any difference since another fielder EVEN though the ball was deflected had a chance to make a play, however, the point is WE do not know what another umpire sees.

Case and Point:

I had a tournament game this past weekend. B1 hits a slow roller up the first base line and the ball TOUCHED him (way out of the box area where it's customary to call FOUL) . I call TIME, that's interference and B1 is out. Other runners return to TOI bases (It was a FED game)

Every-one (except F2 who saw it as well and the BR) is looking around thinking WTF until I went and explained what happened. The point is there are many calls which on the surface appear to be "wrong" until the facts are told.

Rookies have to learn

Pete Booth

[Rich Ives]

[QUOTE=PeteBooth;594462]

I disagree with this approach.

We all have to learn sometime. if you want to "straighten him out" then do so in POST GAME, NOT during the game.

Now, throughout the remainder of this game and perhaps future games as well, whenever there is something controversial involving a call by this umpire, BOTH coaches are going to request TIME and ask YOU to straighten out.

A rookie has to LEARN how to deal with managers even if that means an EJ. if the rookie called TIME and then asked for your opinion is one thing but for you to take the rookie aside and straigten him out is quite another.

Also, how do you know that the ball was NOT deflected off of F1 first. In this play it would not have made any difference since another fielder EVEN though the ball was deflected had a chance to make a play, however, the point is WE do not know what another umpire sees.

Case and Point:

I had a tournament game this past weekend. B1 hits a slow roller up the first base line and the ball TOUCHED him (way out of the box area where it's customary to call FOUL) . I call TIME, that's interference and B1 is out. Other runners return to TOI bases (It was a FED game)

Every-one (except F2 who saw it as well and the BR) is looking around thinking WTF until I went and explained what happened. The point is there are many calls which on the surface appear to be "wrong" until the facts are told.

Rookies have to learn

Pete Booth

So if both managers and you (and most likely Grandma in the upper deck in right field) know it's bogus (it's a rule misapplication, not a judgenent call also) you'll just clam up and let the rookie suffer? You don't think that reflects on you? You don't think one of the managers (or both) will ask you after the game why you didn't fix it?

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by TwoBits

That's what was called (eventually). My partner, a rookie, made a no call since "runner has a right to the base line". Defensive coach was livid, of course, even more so because his second baseman was rolling on the ground in pain. I took my partner to the side, straightened him out, and had him change the call. Offensive team was fine with the change since they knew it was the correct call.

Followup question: Same situation, this time R1 legally slides into second base but still contacting F4. Same call?

TwoBits:

I have a question for you: Who was the BU on this play, you or your partner?

MTD, Sr.

[jicecone]

Originally Posted by TwoBits

That's what was called (eventually). My partner, a rookie, made a no call since "runner has a right to the base line". Defensive coach was livid, of course, even more so because his second baseman was rolling on the ground in pain. I took my partner to the side, straightened him out, and had him change the call. Offensive team was fine with the change since they knew it was the correct call.

Followup question: Same situation, this time R1 legally slides into second base but still contacting F4. Same call?

There is no way, I can know that my partner mis-applied a rule unless he tells me so, for this sceneario. Therefore, unless he initates a discussion, I am not taking him to the side and straighting him out. This seems more as though the PU decided that his partner made the wrong call and stepped in to make sure it was changed. Wether he intended to or not. The rookie was thrown under the bus. As already stated, unless the rookie called time and asked, then the situation lended itself to a post game discussion only.

[beachbum]

I am confused on this play. If this same senario happened at home, I would have nothing. The catcher is entitled to the base line or plate with the ball and the base runner is entitled to the base line. Since everything happened at the same time, i would just call the play, either safe or out.

Explain why this would not be the case at second??? Base runner in the base line has a right to his path and the fielder would have his rights with the ball.

remember I'm fairly new..so be easy on me

[Matt]

Originally Posted by beachbum

I am confused on this play. If this same senario happened at home, I would have nothing. The catcher is entitled to the base line or plate with the ball and the base runner is entitled to the base line. Since everything happened at the same time, i would just call the play, either safe or out.

Explain why this would not be the case at second??? Base runner in the base line has a right to his path and the fielder would have his rights with the ball.

remember I'm fairly new..so be easy on me

The runner does not have the right to his path on a batted ball. A fielder attempting to field a batted ball has the unfettered right to do so, assuming he a) is the fielder more likely than any other to field the ball, and b) he has not misplayed the ball so that it is outside of his immediate position (defined as a step and a reach.)

[jkumpire]

I would flip the coin, call "heads" in this situation, then make my call...