What would you call?

[soundedlikeastrike]

Ditto: interference on R1

[TwoBits]

That's what was called (eventually). My partner, a rookie, made a no call since "runner has a right to the base line". Defensive coach was livid, of course, even more so because his second baseman was rolling on the ground in pain. I took my partner to the side, straightened him out, and had him change the call. Offensive team was fine with the change since they knew it was the correct call.

Followup question: Same situation, this time R1 legally slides into second base but still contacting F4. Same call?

[Matt]

Originally Posted by TwoBits

That's what was called (eventually). My partner, a rookie, made a no call since "runner has a right to the base line". Defensive coach was livid, of course, even more so because his second baseman was rolling on the ground in pain. I took my partner to the side, straightened him out, and had him change the call. Offensive team was fine with the change since they knew it was the correct call.

Followup question: Same situation, this time R1 legally slides into second base but still contacting F4. Same call?

Yep, if I'm envisioning the change in scenario correctly.

[kylejt]

Originally Posted by TwoBits

I took my partner to the side, straightened him out, and had him change the call.

Whoa!

Did he ask for your help? The manager properly protest the ruling?

[Kevin Finnerty]

Originally Posted by kylejt

Whoa!

Did he ask for your help? The manager properly protest the ruling?

As much as it killed me, last week, I let a horses--- call by a partner stand, because he refused to ask me for help. It was the most blatant kick I have ever seen, and it was hard to walk away when he refused to ask me for help. I have never just straightened him out and changed a call without being asked.

[jdmara]

Originally Posted by Kevin Finnerty

As much as it killed me, last week, I let a horses--- call by a partner stand, because he refused to ask me for help. It was the most blatant kick I have ever seen, and it was hard to walk away when he refused to ask me for help. I have never just straightened him out and changed a call without being asked.

You wouldn't approach him for an obvious, critical misapplication of the rules? I guess I would if I felt that was what happened Maybe I'm in the minority

-Josh

[Matt]

Originally Posted by jdmara

You wouldn't approach him for an obvious, critical misapplication of the rules? I guess I would if I felt that was what happened Maybe I'm in the minority

-Josh

I hope you're in the minority.

There are acceptable, established means by which a misapplication of a rule can be rectified. Throwing a partner under the bus is not one of them.

[jdmara]

Originally Posted by Matt

I hope you're in the minority.

There are acceptable, established means by which a misapplication of a rule can be rectified. Throwing a partner under the bus is not one of them.

For instance, a few weeks ago...R2 stealing on the pitch with two outs, B3 swings at the pitch and misses. F2 attempts to throw out R3 and is interfered with by B2. PU calls runner out on the interference. I approach PU and discuss the situation with him. He corrected the call, B2 is out for interference. Are you saying I shouldn't correct that error? We should start the next inning off with B2 at bat? There is a difference between throwing the partner under the bus (ie "Hey Randy you're wrong!" from 30 feet away or telling the coach he screwed that call up) and getting the call right because of a rules interpretation/knowledge error.

-Josh

[GoodwillRef]

Originally Posted by Matt

I hope you're in the minority.

There are acceptable, established means by which a misapplication of a rule can be rectified. Throwing a partner under the bus is not one of them.

It is our job to get the call right, and if I know my partner is kicking a call (not a judgement out/safe) I am going to help him out and make us both look good. What good does it do to let him kick it...helping your partner and getting it right to me is not throwing him under the bus, not helping when you know there is something wrong is like running yourself over with the bus.

[archangel]

Originally Posted by kylejt

Whoa!
Did he ask for your help? The manager properly protest the ruling?

I have mixed feelings on this.
Since the OP said "rookie partner", I'm assuming its a lower level game. We can agree that when we make a mistake, we now "own" it, hopefully insuring it wont happen to us again.

So whats the best way to handle this? Either let the rookie eat it, and face the HC's anger to the point of possible ejection (dont recall anything about the coach requesting help on the call), knowing that we look good or bad as a crew.....or giving the rookie some unasked for info? (seems easy to do during the injury/deadball.

Other posts talk of "signals" from one to another when info is available. Would a rookie in this sich remember the signal EVEN IF gone over in pregame?

Now, if this was with an experienced partner, well....thats another matter.

[PeteBooth]

[QUOTE]

Originally Posted by TwoBits

That's what was called (eventually). My partner, a rookie, made a no call since "runner has a right to the base line". Defensive coach was livid, of course, even more so because his second baseman was rolling on the ground in pain. I took my partner to the side, straightened him out, and had him change the call.

I disagree with this approach.

We all have to learn sometime. if you want to "straighten him out" then do so in POST GAME, NOT during the game.

Now, throughout the remainder of this game and perhaps future games as well, whenever there is something controversial involving a call by this umpire, BOTH coaches are going to request TIME and ask YOU to straighten out.

A rookie has to LEARN how to deal with managers even if that means an EJ. if the rookie called TIME and then asked for your opinion is one thing but for you to take the rookie aside and straigten him out is quite another.

Also, how do you know that the ball was NOT deflected off of F1 first. In this play it would not have made any difference since another fielder EVEN though the ball was deflected had a chance to make a play, however, the point is WE do not know what another umpire sees.

Case and Point:

I had a tournament game this past weekend. B1 hits a slow roller up the first base line and the ball TOUCHED him (way out of the box area where it's customary to call FOUL) . I call TIME, that's interference and B1 is out. Other runners return to TOI bases (It was a FED game)

Every-one (except F2 who saw it as well and the BR) is looking around thinking WTF until I went and explained what happened. The point is there are many calls which on the surface appear to be "wrong" until the facts are told.

Rookies have to learn

Pete Booth

[Rich Ives]

[QUOTE=PeteBooth;594462]

I disagree with this approach.

We all have to learn sometime. if you want to "straighten him out" then do so in POST GAME, NOT during the game.

Now, throughout the remainder of this game and perhaps future games as well, whenever there is something controversial involving a call by this umpire, BOTH coaches are going to request TIME and ask YOU to straighten out.

A rookie has to LEARN how to deal with managers even if that means an EJ. if the rookie called TIME and then asked for your opinion is one thing but for you to take the rookie aside and straigten him out is quite another.

Also, how do you know that the ball was NOT deflected off of F1 first. In this play it would not have made any difference since another fielder EVEN though the ball was deflected had a chance to make a play, however, the point is WE do not know what another umpire sees.

Case and Point:

I had a tournament game this past weekend. B1 hits a slow roller up the first base line and the ball TOUCHED him (way out of the box area where it's customary to call FOUL) . I call TIME, that's interference and B1 is out. Other runners return to TOI bases (It was a FED game)

Every-one (except F2 who saw it as well and the BR) is looking around thinking WTF until I went and explained what happened. The point is there are many calls which on the surface appear to be "wrong" until the facts are told.

Rookies have to learn

Pete Booth

So if both managers and you (and most likely Grandma in the upper deck in right field) know it's bogus (it's a rule misapplication, not a judgenent call also) you'll just clam up and let the rookie suffer? You don't think that reflects on you? You don't think one of the managers (or both) will ask you after the game why you didn't fix it?

[Matt]

Originally Posted by Rich Ives

You don't think one of the managers (or both) will ask you after the game why you didn't fix it?

Then you ask them why they didn't file a protest or ask him to ask for help.

You stick your nose in your partner's call, you cut his legs out from under him. It's that simple.

[DG]

I have INT also, in both cases, but let's discuss the bigger question that has been raised here.

Let's say you are BU, and with R1 stealing the batter interferes with catcher's throw. PU properly calls INT, then calls R1 out and leaves the batter at the plate. No one argues, clearly the defense is better off so if the defensive coach knows the rule he is not saying. Offensive coach clearly does not know the rule and PU does not either, but you the BU do.

No judgment call involved here, clearly rule mis-application. And some will stick that info in their pocket and post game this?

[Rich Ives]

Originally Posted by Matt

Then you ask them why they didn't file a protest or ask him to ask for help.

You stick your nose in your partner's call, you cut his legs out from under him. It's that simple.

In the OP the poster initiated the consultation on his own. Do you really think the offended manager, knowing the rule, wouldn't have initiated an "ask for help" request?

In the OP it got fixed before it got to the protest point. A protest wasn't necessary.

Would you let a partner get away with a "strike two- - you're out" call?

It's that simple.