Does this run score?

[TxUmp]

Not an actual situation, but a play that came up in a rules discussion - NFHS rules:

R1 at 3rd, R2 at 2nd with 1 out. B1 hits a fly ball to center field. CF catches the ball for out number 2, R1 and R2 tag but R1 leaves early. R1 scores easily and the throw from CF to 3rd base goes out of play allowing R2 to score. The defense makes a dead ball appeal that R1 left early, and the appeal is upheld. Do any runs score?

I say that the run does not score (even though it is a timing situation - not a force out) since the 3rd out was made on a preceding runner (NFHS 9.9.1c)

Did I give the proper answer?

[UmpJM]

TxUmp,

You are correct.

Also, lose the "R1 at 3rd" terminology.

JM

[TxUmp]

I agree that this is bad terminology, but I merely used cut-and-paste to forward the question I was asked.

It probably came from an NFHS test, therefore the confusing terminology.

[Kevin Finnerty]

I always re-word a confusing question and then answer the question the way it was supposed to be worded.

[SAump]

I understand that a verbal appeal may be granted, i.e. "and the appeal is upheld."
Yet, here the defense threw the ball out of the playing field.
The runner cannot return to re-touch 3B.
Can the defense make a dead ball appeal without the baseball?
I probably would make no decision until the ball was put back into play.
Shouldn't I wait until the defense regains possession of the baseball before granting an appeal?

[Gaff]

Originally Posted by SAump

I understand that a verbal appeal may be granted, i.e. "and the appeal is upheld."
Yet, here the defense threw the ball out of the playing field.
The runner cannot return to re-touch 3B.
Can the defense make a dead ball appeal without the baseball?
I probably would make no decision until the ball was put back into play.
Shouldn't I wait until the defense regains possession of the baseball before granting an appeal?

Why go through all of this. This is a FED game and a dead ball appeal should be upheld.

[ManInBlue]

You don't need a ball for the coach to say "hey, ump, he left early" - that's FED, man - dead ball appeal should be upheld. Runner can't return to touch 3rd anyway - a following runner has crossed home.

To answer the question (again) you are correct.

[johnnyg08]

how about this? could they appeal R3 at 3rd base (alleging that he left early), then appeal R2 (who did leave early) for the 3rd out to nullify the run?

[ManInBlue]

Originally Posted by johnnyg08

how about this? could they appeal R3 at 3rd base (alleging that he left early), then appeal R2 (who did leave early) for the 3rd out to nullify the run?

Yes they could make those appeals. No it would not nullify a run, because it is a timing play (no force involved) and R3 has scored prior to the appeal.

I am assuming you mean R3 had not left early, the appeal is not upheld, so they then appeal R2.

[johnnyg08]

yep, R3 safe on appeal, then they appeal R2...I know that they can appeal (not sure that's how I phrased my question though)...but it does not nullify the run?

[DG]

Originally Posted by TxUmp

Not an actual situation, but a play that came up in a rules discussion - NFHS rules:

R1 at 3rd, R2 at 2nd with 1 out. B1 hits a fly ball to center field. CF catches the ball for out number 2, R1 and R2 tag but R1 leaves early. R1 scores easily and the throw from CF to 3rd base goes out of play allowing R2 to score. The defense makes a dead ball appeal that R1 left early, and the appeal is upheld. Do any runs score?

I say that the run does not score (even though it is a timing situation - not a force out) since the 3rd out was made on a preceding runner (NFHS 9.9.1c)

Did I give the proper answer?

Correct call, but I'm not sure what you mean by timing situation. R1 is out on appeal, and R2 did not score on a timing, he scored on an award due to throw going into dead ball so the appeal wipes out the award.

[bobbybanaduck]

paaaaaaaaaaancakes. r1 lives on 1b. always. argh.

[jicecone]

Originally Posted by bobbybanaduck

paaaaaaaaaaancakes. r1 lives on 1b. always. argh.

Yep, unless your in Fedlandia!!!!!!!!!

[ManInBlue]

Originally Posted by ManInBlue

No it would not nullify a run, because it is a timing play (no force involved) and R3 has scored prior to the appeal.

Originally Posted by johnnyg08

yep, R3 safe on appeal, then they appeal R2...I know that they can appeal (not sure that's how I phrased my question though)...but it does not nullify the run?

I answered that part too.

[johnnyg08]

lets take this exact situation (OP), but the defense appeals that R3 left early for the 3rd out after R2 and R3 cross the plate. Does R2 score since it is a time play and not a force out?