You make the call

[Umpmazza]

Im not gonna EJ the runner, but i will talk to him, he didnt slide with his leg up as to take somone out, yes his slide was high and ugly and late but I didnt see again wrong. JMO

[Kevin Finnerty]

Advice is dismissed, because the young player/umpire knows all he needs to know about playing and umpiring. He needs to go away until he grows up.

There are those who heed advice of course, and those guys I help to no end with advice, equipment, accessories, uniforms, etc. I've done my part, and there are many young guys who are right for umpiring and can and should be brought along.

But the guys like the guy in the video and most of the ones who look like him are not open to advice or criticism and should go away before they hurt the vocation and the game any more than they have.

[Kevin Finnerty]

Originally Posted by Umpmazza

Im not gonna EJ the runner, but i will talk to him, he didnt slide with his leg up as to take somone out, yes his slide was high and ugly and late but I didnt see again wrong. JMO

Watch it nine more times. It looks more and more malicious each time.

[mick]

Originally Posted by Kevin Finnerty

[snip]
But the guys like the guy in the video and most of the ones who look like him are not open to advice or criticism and should go away before they hurt the vocation and the game any more than they have.

Oh, my.

[DonInKansas]

Safe, no ej. I've seen this "hop-slide" at lower levels before. I put it in the same realm as diving headfirst into first base. No matter how stupid it is, some people are still going to do it.

[Kevin Finnerty]

Originally Posted by mick

Oh, my.

Why do you think people show up day one to watch their kids play ball in high school with a dreadful opinion of umpires and the vocation? Half the hell we catch from those clown parents is because of prejudices that are formed watching slouches like that guy.

More clinics; more mentorships; more equipment; higher fees; more responsible supervisors---those are some of the things that are needed.

[gordon30307]

Originally Posted by BigUmp56

In HS or HS age level game, I have the runner safe and then ejected. His intent wasn't to just reach the plate safely. He wanted to take someone out.


Tim.

How can you possibly justify an ejection. He slid between the catchers legs and hardly made contact. Looks to me he was trying to avoid contact. I've got nothing.

[BigUmp56]

Originally Posted by gordon30307

How can you possibly justify an ejection. He slid between the catchers legs and hardly made contact. Looks to me he was trying to avoid contact. I've got nothing.

The runner didn't slide at all, and that's the problem. He tried to make a flying jump kick at the play in order to break up the possibility of being tagged. It was only out of luck that the pitcher, not the catcher, wasn't injured on the play. I never once mentioned that I would eject the runner for MC. But for unsportsmanlike conduct, he's done for the day in a game I'm working. I don't understand how you would allow such crap in a game. If you leave this alone, there's bound to be an amount of retaliation coming.


Tim.

[mick]

Originally Posted by Kevin Finnerty

Why do you think people show up day one to watch their kids play ball in high school with a dreadful opinion of umpires and the vocation? Half the hell we catch from those clown parents is because of prejudices that are formed watching slouches like that guy.

More clinics; more mentorships; more equipment; higher fees; more responsible supervisors---those are some of the things that are needed.

I really don't think about dreadful opinions very much. If the shoe don't fit, I ain't wearing it. If it fits, it must be mine.
I cannot be silent when I see one of those guys wallow away without some sort of assistance, assistance which was rarely offered to me by umpires that didn't wish to make me uncomfortable, or by umpires that just didn't care.

[Kevin Finnerty]

Originally Posted by BigUmp56

The runner didn't slide at all, and that's the problem. He tried to make a flying jump kick at the play in order to break up the possibility of being tagged. It was only out of luck that the pitcher, not the catcher, wasn't injured on the play. I never once mentioned that I would eject the runner for MC. But for unsportsmanlike conduct, he's done for the day in a game I'm working. I don't understand how you would allow such crap in a game. If you leave this alone, there's bound to be an amount of retaliation coming.


Tim.

I have come around completely.

I think that you touched on an important aspect of a play like that.

The guy does a Ty Cobb on a guy trying to make a play--he goes. Malicious intent is unsportsmanlike whether it yields contact or not.

The closest thing I ever had to a borderline EJ for peace purposes was a R2 whose hard slide into the plate on a single dumped the catcher on top of him--perfectly fine. But as they lay there for a second, R2 gives the catcher a two-arm GTF off me kind of shove (without saying GTF off me). In the split-second before he gave him a second shove, I had decided to warn the guy and leave him in the game. But he gave the catcher a second two-hand shove (harder than the first) and I tossed him on the spot for the very reason that I could not allow the other club to retaliate for my failure to act.

[Kevin Finnerty]

Originally Posted by mick

I really don't think about dreadful opinions very much. If the shoe don't fit, I ain't wearing it. If it fits, it must be mine.
I cannot be silent when I see one of those guys wallow away without some sort of assistance, assistance which was rarely offered to me by umpires that didn't wish to make me uncomfortable, or by umpires that just didn't care.

Okay, you are obviously not reading everything before you respond.

I have the thickest skin possible. It's not a complaint, it's an observation. And mostly, the shoe doesn't fit. That's the point you missed by crafting your folksy slogan before getting the message.

Some kids know it all and don't accept help. It's the first time they've been put in charge of something and they go nuts with it and it takes over their ability to be humble and accept discipline or instruction. The game needs to do a better job of training players and umpires. It's a borderline disgrace. But when the game allows slouches like this to continue to infect it just to save a few bucks, it's pathetic.

There's a league around here that has three current major leaguers and a current major league umpire that all played there in the 1990s. The league is full of wealthy families as well as their major league graduates. They allow umpires like the slouch in the film routinely and allow some of the most slovenly and lazy and disrespectful umpiring you'll find. They have state-of-the-art facilities and equipment, and a full restaurant for a snack shack, but they do nothing about having decent umpiring. It's shameful.

[ozzy6900]

FED - Safe and ejected (Malicious Contact)

NCAA - Safe and ejected (FPSR)

OBR (youth leagues) - Safe and ejected (unsportsmanlike conduct)

OBR MLB - Safe (He's going to get one in his ear at the next at bat)

It is my opinion (and in a game, that is all that counts) that the runner had every intention of taking out F1 at the plate. Contact is not necessary, it is how the runner presents his intentions. Had the runner not jumped into the air, there would be no problem in all codes.

[UmpTTS43]

Originally Posted by Kevin Finnerty

Okay, you are obviously not reading everything before you respond.

I have the thickest skin possible. It's not a complaint, it's an observation. And mostly, the shoe doesn't fit. That's the point you missed by crafting your folksy slogan before getting the message.

Some kids know it all and don't accept help. It's the first time they've been put in charge of something and they go nuts with it and it takes over their ability to be humble and accept discipline or instruction. The game needs to do a better job of training players and umpires. It's a borderline disgrace. But when the game allows slouches like this to continue to infect it just to save a few bucks, it's pathetic.

There's a league around here that has three current major leaguers and a current major league umpire that all played there in the 1990s. The league is full of wealthy families as well as their major league graduates. They allow umpires like the slouch in the film routinely and allow some of the most slovenly and lazy and disrespectful umpiring you'll find. They have state-of-the-art facilities and equipment, and a full restaurant for a snack shack, but they do nothing about having decent umpiring. It's shameful.

I hope your high horse bucks you off instead of me asking you to get off it. You don't know the situation with these games.

Why is it that "established" umpires always want to pick apart someone because of thier appearance, mechanics, etc. especially at low level games? Where I live, there is hardly any training that is substansive for the umpires that are already in the game let alone new guys. Instead of taking this kid aside and telling him how bad he looks, help him out and train him. You don't like his appearance, give him one of your shirts. You don't like how he clears the catcher, show him. When was the last time you visited a baseball game in a non-umpire capacity and offered your advice to a new umpire?

Finally, if you are getting grief because you believe that undertrained umpires are influencing the observers, then it is probably not the fault of that poor unfortunate undertrained umpire, it is you.

[dash_riprock]

Originally Posted by ozzy6900

FED - Safe and ejected (Malicious Contact)

NCAA - Safe and ejected (FPSR)

OBR (youth leagues) - Safe and ejected (unsportsmanlike conduct)

OBR MLB - Safe (He's going to get one in his ear at the next at bat)

It is my opinion (and in a game, that is all that counts) that the runner had every intention of taking out F1 at the plate. Contact is not necessary, it is how the runner presents his intentions. Had the runner not jumped into the air, there would be no problem in all codes.

That's what I have too. If you want to leave him in the game (other than OBR/MLB), fine, but "having a word" with him is asking for trouble. Either it was a legal slide or it wasn't. Having a word with him will bring an argument from the DC as to why he wasn't dumped.

[Umpmazza]

Originally Posted by ozzy6900

NCAA - Safe and ejected (FPSR)

.

Ozzy...the FPSR in NCAA pertains only to a force play situation at any base, regardless of the number of outs. So in that aspect how do you have him out for FPSR? Please believe me I'm just asking as I have always like your comments.