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  #16 (permalink)  
Old Wed Dec 24, 2008, 12:28am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Umpmazza View Post
ok here is the answer...

In (a), R2 is not out and the run counts. F2 would have had to tag him for the appeal. In (b), it is an appeal play and R2 is out since he left the plate area heading for the dugout. The runner has to make an Immediate effort to return, of course this is a judgment call.
So, everyone gave you the correct answer, you had no clue as to why they were correct, (as disclosed by your question regarding relaxed and unrelaxed action), and then you repeated their answers in an attempt to demonstrate that even if you didn't know why they were correct, you knew they were correct.

Strange game.
  #17 (permalink)  
Old Wed Dec 24, 2008, 02:31am
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Originally Posted by PeteBooth View Post
Example: Ground ball to F4 who throws to F3. B1 beats the play but does not touch first base. B1 is some 10-12 ft passed the bag and F3 steps on first and says "Blue B1 missed the bag" - Umpire will make the ruling in this case out.

Same as above EXCEPT B1 after passing first base immediately scrambles back (action = un-relaxed). In that instance B1 must be tagged in order to get the out.
Why would a tag have to be made on your second situation? The runner missed the bag, so touching the bag would make him out, regardless if he's running back to touch it or not, right?

If I'm wrong, I'd love to see some references to this.
  #18 (permalink)  
Old Wed Dec 24, 2008, 02:37am
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Originally Posted by Ump153 View Post
So, everyone gave you the correct answer, you had no clue as to why they were correct, (as disclosed by your question regarding relaxed and unrelaxed action), and then you repeated their answers in an attempt to demonstrate that even if you didn't know why they were correct, you knew they were correct.

Strange game.
Not everyone gave correct answer...and I have never heard of the Relaxed or Unrelaxed... that is a Jaska and Roder thing... please show me that in the OBR rules, NCAA rules..

I knew that people had given the right answers... Likek I said i wanted to see if anyone knew the answers.. I had gotten the new study guide...
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  #19 (permalink)  
Old Wed Dec 24, 2008, 08:48am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Umpmazza View Post
Not everyone gave correct answer...and I have never heard of the Relaxed or Unrelaxed... that is a Jaska and Roder thing... please show me that in the OBR rules, NCAA rules..
Please show me where your OP stated the rule set.
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  #20 (permalink)  
Old Wed Dec 24, 2008, 10:35am
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Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by yawetag View Post
Why would a tag have to be made on your second situation? The runner missed the bag, so touching the bag would make him out, regardless if he's running back to touch it or not, right?

If I'm wrong, I'd love to see some references to this.
On a play where B1 beats the throw to first base but does NOT touch the base, the proper mechanic is for the umpire to signal safe.

At one time in FED ONLY an "accidental appeal" was allowed. That is NOT the case anymore.

Therefore, if B1 beats the throw and missed first base, F3 MUST tag B1 to get the out provided the action is un-relaxed ie: B1 immediately turns around to touch the base.


Pete Booth
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  #21 (permalink)  
Old Wed Dec 24, 2008, 10:39am
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[QUOTE]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Umpmazza View Post
Not everyone gave correct answer...and I have never heard of the Relaxed or Unrelaxed... that is a Jaska and Roder thing... please show me that in the OBR rules, NCAA rules..
As been stated you will NOT find the terms Re-laxed / Un-relaxed action in the rule book.

Since you said that is a Jaska and Roder thing.. it's apparent that you do not adhere to authoritative opinion concerning the rules.

It has been noted that there are some 230 errors contained in the OBR rule-book and that's why it's important at least IMO to have supplemental materials such as the J/R manual to better explain the rules through case play examples.

Pete Booth
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  #22 (permalink)  
Old Wed Dec 24, 2008, 11:18am
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The state of the US and this whole recession thing is making me feel unrelaxed!!
  #23 (permalink)  
Old Wed Dec 24, 2008, 11:40am
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I suppose there is a difference between errors and insufficiencies. The 230 number covers a lot more than just errors in the rules.
  #24 (permalink)  
Old Wed Dec 24, 2008, 12:25pm
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Originally Posted by Kevin Finnerty View Post
I suppose there is a difference between errors and insufficiencies. The 230 number covers a lot more than just errors in the rules.
It covers errors and inconsistencies....not insufficiencies.
  #25 (permalink)  
Old Wed Dec 24, 2008, 01:27pm
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[QUOTE=PeteBooth;561384]
Quote:

As been stated you will NOT find the terms Re-laxed / Un-relaxed action in the rule book.

Since you said that is a Jaska and Roder thing.. it's apparent that you do not adhere to authoritative opinion concerning the rules.

It has been noted that there are some 230 errors contained in the OBR rule-book and that's why it's important at least IMO to have supplemental materials such as the J/R manual to better explain the rules through case play examples.

Pete Booth
Pete your right I dont have a Jaska and Roder book.. Its on my Xmas list...LOL
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  #26 (permalink)  
Old Wed Dec 24, 2008, 01:28pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mbyron View Post
Please show me where your OP stated the rule set.
What i was referring to was, That I have no idea about J/R manual...What i said was the Relaxed and unrelaxed is not any any of the rules books.... So I know I need the J/R manual.
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  #27 (permalink)  
Old Wed Dec 24, 2008, 02:05pm
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[QUOTE]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Umpmazza View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by PeteBooth View Post

Pete your right I dont have a Jaska and Roder book.. Its on my Xmas list...LOL
Mazz if you get paid for your services and Santa does not get you the JR manual perhaps you can use some of the game FEES to purchase it.

FWIW I would also purchase Carl Childress's BRD (Baseball Rule differences) which you can get on this site.

Pete Booth
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  #28 (permalink)  
Old Wed Dec 24, 2008, 07:59pm
DG DG is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Umpmazza View Post
I have never heard of the Relaxed or Unrelaxed... that is a Jaska and Roder thing... please show me that in the OBR rules, NCAA rules..
If you depend only on the rule books you will never be a good umpire. You must get supplemental study materials that explain in greater detail, and/or explain what is not explained by the written rules.
  #29 (permalink)  
Old Wed Dec 24, 2008, 08:10pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PeteBooth View Post
On a play where B1 beats the throw to first base but does NOT touch the base, the proper mechanic is for the umpire to signal safe.

At one time in FED ONLY an "accidental appeal" was allowed. That is NOT the case anymore.

Therefore, if B1 beats the throw and missed first base, F3 MUST tag B1 to get the out provided the action is un-relaxed ie: B1 immediately turns around to touch the base.


Pete Booth
How can B1 beat the throw to 1st base if he doesn't touch it? Isn't that HOW he beats the throw is by touching 1st?
  #30 (permalink)  
Old Wed Dec 24, 2008, 08:31pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DonInKansas View Post
How can B1 beat the throw to 1st base if he doesn't touch it? Isn't that HOW he beats the throw is by touching 1st?
When he passes a base, he is considered to be "at" that base.
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