$40-$70 Titanium Cage LSH

[SAump]

Survey says?
1) Why shell out the dough on a black HSM w/ titanium cage when a cheaper alternative may consider product A)
Warrior Pro Z Black Lacrosse Helmet & Titanium Mask L - eBay (item 400014619205 end time Dec-07-08 20:10:29 PST)
or product B)
Warrior Viking HVKB Black Lacrosse Helmet & Mask XL - eBay (item 400014042524 end time Dec-07-08 19:34:28 PST)

2) Would you buy a LSH? Consider these benefits: A) cost less, B) improved air flow, C) cage protection on par w/ HSM, D) improved vision, E) less vulnerable collar, F) eliminate pads, and G) less risk of concussion.

3) Do you consider this LSH a visual/fashion improvement over the HSM?
For comparison: http://www.onlinesports.com/images/wls-wta5590bla.jpg

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by SAump

Survey says?
1) Why shell out the dough on a black HSM w/ titanium cage when a cheaper alternative may consider product A)
Warrior Pro Z Black Lacrosse Helmet & Titanium Mask L - eBay (item 400014619205 end time Dec-07-08 20:10:29 PST)
or product B)
Warrior Viking HVKB Black Lacrosse Helmet & Mask XL - eBay (item 400014042524 end time Dec-07-08 19:34:28 PST)

2) Would you buy a LSH considering these benefits:
A) cost less, B) improved air flow/eliminates need for wraparound pads, C) cage protection on par w/ more expensive titanium HSM, D) improved peripheral vision, E) collar less exposed to foul balls, F) eliminating wraparound pads increases facial recognition, and G) significantly less risk of concussion from 95mph foul ball.

3) Do you consider this LSH a visual/fashion improvement over the HSM or do you consider these LSH as ugly or uglier than a HSM?
IOW, would you give one to an close relative who may umpire as a Christmas present or pass on something else with the same amount of value such as a new powder blue polo shirt, underarmour shirt and black knee-high socks?
--------------------------------------------------------------
Answer Key:
1) A, B, or niether.
2) Yes, or no. Please explain.
3) Yes, or no. Please explain.

SAump:

I would not buy either because of the vertical bar that is in the middel of the mask.

MTD, Sr.

[eagle_12]

And the fact that there is a chin strap, severly limiting the ability to take off the "mask".

Oh wait, HSM wearers don't take off their "masks" so this may add to their arguement. And how are you going to fit a hat under there.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by eagle_12

And the fact that there is a chin strap, severly limiting the ability to take off the "mask".

Oh wait, HSM wearers don't take off their "masks" so this may add to their arguement. And how are you going to fit a hat under there.

Most helmet wearers do not feel the need to don a hat. Those who do remind me of Rick Moranis in Spaceballs.

[bossman72]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

Most helmet wearers do not feel the need to don a hat. Those who do remind me of Rick Moranis in Spaceballs.

"Smoke if ya got em!"

[SAump]

I regret my sarcasm about taking a hacksaw to a brand new product. I should have stated what any experienced official would have stated.

If you wear bifocals, the seperation between lenses is as wide as that bar. If the bar blocks your vision of the ball, then you are standing to close to the play. One has to understand the concept of angle versus distance to fully appreciate the fact. You are not looking into the helmet, your looking out of it. The converse is if the bar blocks you vision of the ball, pray for the bar to protect you and thank God it is still there.

The other hangup appears to be the chin strap. What other sport allows a participating member to remove a helmet during live action? Comments were made about the ability to take off the helmet in one motion. You need to remove a mask to run faster or see better. Those chinstraps promise additional safety and eliminate the need to carry the helmet around on the ballfield. Why would one need to remove an umpire helmet?

Any future improvement in safety will have to look hoakey. Check out the protection around the neck, forehead and facial cage. Compare it to forehead, face grill and throat guard on any HSM up to latest Shock FX designed for baseball. Make the call.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/ima...8960367&sr=8-6

[Kevin Finnerty]

This is getting to the point where it's not even funny even if it's a joke.

[SAump]

Originally Posted by Kevin Finnerty

This is getting to the point where it's not even funny even if it's a joke.

"Maybe you should check with the Pros who wear the "bucket". Most of them remove the "bucket" as often as we remove our masks."

I understand why we remove the mask. The question is why do you remove the bucket so often? Wait a minute, you remove your helmet because we removed our mask. I am looking for any other reason you remove the bucket. Plain English, ball hit to LF, why take your eyes off the ball?

Okay I'll bite first. I take off the mask because I am really quick. When I go out on a fly ball, I don't want my mask to fling off in front of me and take my attention away from the play. If falling off when I take off isn't a problem, then I worry that it will fall off when I stop. That is the exact moment when I need to make my call. I can't be fidgeting around trying to catch my mask at the same time. Now how or why would a HSM lose its perch?

[BigUmp56]

Originally Posted by SAump

I understand why we remove the mask. The question is why do you remove the bucket so often? Wait a minute, you remove your helmet because we removed our mask. I am looking for any other reason you remove the bucket.

Well, do you need the protection of a mask or helmet after the ball has been put into play? If God thought we'd have better vision with bars in front of our face, he'd have built us that way.

Tim.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by SAump

I understand why we remove the mask. The question is why do you remove the bucket so often? Wait a minute, you remove your helmet because we removed our mask. I am looking for any other reason you remove the bucket. Plain English, ball hit to LF, why take your eyes off the ball?

Okay I'll bite first. I take off the mask because I am really quick. When I go out on a fly ball, I don't want my mask to fling off in front of me and take my attention away from the play. If falling off when I take off isn't a problem, then I worry that it will fall off when I stop. That is the exact moment when I need to make my call. I can't be fidgeting around trying to catch my mask at the same time. Now how or why would a HSM lose it perch?

You remove the helmet for the same reason you remove your mask, not because you removed your mask. Do you think helmet wearers want their helmets bobbing up and down when they run? Why of course not. But you already knew that, because, as you often do, you are just messing with everyone's head here!

[SAump]

Thanks for the replies.

1) How long will it take to remove that annoying bar with a hacksaw?

2) One should remove a mask. One should not remove a helmet. Say goodbye to that HSM throat guard attachment and replacing all those worn out plate hats. Would you wear a helmet without a chin strap? HSM users who now worry about getting hit on the back of the head have a better argument for wearing a chin strap. It reduces the risk of concussion from a 95mph foul ball. Think of it as safety and well-being or continue to wear a mask at your own risk.

3) There was discussion about players having to wear a helmet w/face shield for his or her safety. Rules were amended to allow their voluntary use by participants. The idea of implementing a mandatory requirement was rejected. Base coaches couldn't escape the requirement of wearing a fielder's helmet. It won't be long before the issue returns to the discussion table.

[ozzy6900]

[quote=SAump;555908]Thanks for the replies.

1) How long will it take to remove that annoying bar with a hacksaw?/quote]
One should never assume they know more than the engineers that designed the protective device in the first place. This usually leads to meeting new acquaintances in the local Emergency Room.

Originally Posted by SAump

2) One should remove a mask. One should not remove a helmet. Say goodbye to that HSM throat guard attachment and replacing all those worn out plate hats.

Maybe you should check with the Pros who wear the "bucket". Most of them remove the "bucket" as often as we remove our masks. No comment on throat guards as I am not a believer in them.

Originally Posted by SAump

3) Would you wear a helmet without a chin strap? HSM users who now worry about getting hit on the back of the head have a better argument for wearing a chin strap. It reduces the risk of concussion from a 95mph foul ball. Think of it as safety and well-being or continue to wear a mask at your own risk.

Chin straps are not needed for umpires. Where did you come up with the idea that chin straps help when getting hit in the back of the head? As far as the "bucket" vs a mask, I've been wearing a mask for almost 30 years and I am still here!

Originally Posted by SAump

4) There was discussion about players having to wear a helmet w/face shield for his or her safety. Rules were amended to allow their voluntary use by participants. The idea of implementing a mandatory requirement was rejected. Base coaches couldn't escape the requirement of wearing a fielder's helmet. It won't be long before the issue returns to the discussion table.

Okay, what's your point?

SA, you are heading for another fall with this discussion!

[Kevin Finnerty]

Stubborn, old umpires.

I own one of these Wilson HSMs, and I have yet to use it. I prefer a mask. But if I was in the market for one, it certainly would be any one of the dozen or so that are designed for baseball and not this hoaky-looking thing--especially just because it's cheaper.

[SAump]

Originally Posted by ozzy6900

Okay, what's your point?

SA, you are heading for another fall with this discussion!

I'd wear a football helmet if I thought I was in danger of falling. Every umpire thinks about reducing the risk of injury. One is taking a risk, however small the risk may be. Someone stated that the risk from a concussion while wearing a mask or HSM is about even. There is no evidence one offers any better protection than the other. The main idea is to significantly reduce the risk of concussion by removing the danger.

I believe those who say it easy to take off a HSM once they pass the "muscle memory" stage. Why would they be opposed to wearing a chin strap? It applies the same muscle memory requirement w/out the danger imposed by that dangling throat guard. If I were hit that hard, I rather worry about the integrity of the frame than my state of well-being? BIWSTFAD!

[Matt]

Originally Posted by SAump

I believe those who say it easy to take off a HSM once they pass the "muscle memory" stage.

I was an early convert to the HSM. I take it off anytime one would take off a conventional mask--always have, and always will. There never was a learning curve or "muscle memory."

Originally Posted by SAump

Why would they be opposed to wearing a chin strap? It applies the same muscle memory requirement w/out the danger imposed by that dangling throat guard.

Even you cannot be this obtuse. That strap secures in four points, of which two need to be unsnapped for removal. This helmet cannot be removed with one motion.

Also, to what danger are you referring? That sentence doesn't even make sense.