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The Official Forum (https://forum.officiating.com/)
-   Baseball (https://forum.officiating.com/baseball/)
-   -   $40-$70 Titanium Cage LSH (https://forum.officiating.com/baseball/50171-40-70-titanium-cage-lsh.html)

SAump Thu Dec 04, 2008 10:25pm
$40-$70 Titanium Cage LSH
 
Survey says?
1) Why shell out the dough on a black HSM w/ titanium cage when a cheaper alternative may consider product A)
Warrior Pro Z Black Lacrosse Helmet & Titanium Mask L - eBay (item 400014619205 end time Dec-07-08 20:10:29 PST)
or product B)
Warrior Viking HVKB Black Lacrosse Helmet & Mask XL - eBay (item 400014042524 end time Dec-07-08 19:34:28 PST)

2) Would you buy a LSH? Consider these benefits: A) cost less, B) improved air flow, C) cage protection on par w/ HSM, D) improved vision, E) less vulnerable collar, F) eliminate pads, and G) less risk of concussion.

3) Do you consider this LSH a visual/fashion improvement over the HSM?
For comparison: http://www.onlinesports.com/images/wls-wta5590bla.jpg

Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. Thu Dec 04, 2008 10:40pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by SAump (Post 555555)
Survey says?
1) Why shell out the dough on a black HSM w/ titanium cage when a cheaper alternative may consider product A)
Warrior Pro Z Black Lacrosse Helmet & Titanium Mask L - eBay (item 400014619205 end time Dec-07-08 20:10:29 PST)
or product B)
Warrior Viking HVKB Black Lacrosse Helmet & Mask XL - eBay (item 400014042524 end time Dec-07-08 19:34:28 PST)

2) Would you buy a LSH considering these benefits:
A) cost less, B) improved air flow/eliminates need for wraparound pads, C) cage protection on par w/ more expensive titanium HSM, D) improved peripheral vision, E) collar less exposed to foul balls, F) eliminating wraparound pads increases facial recognition, and G) significantly less risk of concussion from 95mph foul ball.

3) Do you consider this LSH a visual/fashion improvement over the HSM or do you consider these LSH as ugly or uglier than a HSM?
IOW, would you give one to an close relative who may umpire as a Christmas present or pass on something else with the same amount of value such as a new powder blue polo shirt, underarmour shirt and black knee-high socks?
--------------------------------------------------------------
Answer Key:
1) A, B, or niether.
2) Yes, or no. Please explain.
3) Yes, or no. Please explain.


SAump:

I would not buy either because of the vertical bar that is in the middel of the mask.

MTD, Sr.

eagle_12 Sat Dec 06, 2008 08:33am
And the fact that there is a chin strap, severly limiting the ability to take off the "mask".

Oh wait, HSM wearers don't take off their "masks" so this may add to their arguement. And how are you going to fit a hat under there.

SAump Sat Dec 06, 2008 11:20am
What Hat?
 
Thanks for the replies.

1) How long will it take to remove that annoying bar with a hacksaw?

2) One should remove a mask. One should not remove a helmet. Say goodbye to that HSM throat guard attachment and replacing all those worn out plate hats. Would you wear a helmet without a chin strap? HSM users who now worry about getting hit on the back of the head have a better argument for wearing a chin strap. It reduces the risk of concussion from a 95mph foul ball. Think of it as safety and well-being or continue to wear a mask at your own risk.

3) There was discussion about players having to wear a helmet w/face shield for his or her safety. Rules were amended to allow their voluntary use by participants. The idea of implementing a mandatory requirement was rejected. Base coaches couldn't escape the requirement of wearing a fielder's helmet. It won't be long before the issue returns to the discussion table.

SanDiegoSteve Sun Dec 07, 2008 02:13am
Quote:
Originally Posted by eagle_12 (Post 555890)
And the fact that there is a chin strap, severly limiting the ability to take off the "mask".

Oh wait, HSM wearers don't take off their "masks" so this may add to their arguement. And how are you going to fit a hat under there.
Most helmet wearers do not feel the need to don a hat. Those who do remind me of Rick Moranis in Spaceballs.

bossman72 Sun Dec 07, 2008 02:30am
Quote:
Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve (Post 556020)
Most helmet wearers do not feel the need to don a hat. Those who do remind me of Rick Moranis in Spaceballs.
"Smoke if ya got em!"

ozzy6900 Sun Dec 07, 2008 10:37am
[quote=SAump;555908]Thanks for the replies.

1) How long will it take to remove that annoying bar with a hacksaw?/quote]
One should never assume they know more than the engineers that designed the protective device in the first place. This usually leads to meeting new acquaintances in the local Emergency Room.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SAump (Post 555908)
2) One should remove a mask. One should not remove a helmet. Say goodbye to that HSM throat guard attachment and replacing all those worn out plate hats.
Maybe you should check with the Pros who wear the "bucket". Most of them remove the "bucket" as often as we remove our masks. No comment on throat guards as I am not a believer in them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SAump (Post 555908)
3) Would you wear a helmet without a chin strap? HSM users who now worry about getting hit on the back of the head have a better argument for wearing a chin strap. It reduces the risk of concussion from a 95mph foul ball. Think of it as safety and well-being or continue to wear a mask at your own risk.
Chin straps are not needed for umpires. Where did you come up with the idea that chin straps help when getting hit in the back of the head? As far as the "bucket" vs a mask, I've been wearing a mask for almost 30 years and I am still here!

Quote:
Originally Posted by SAump (Post 555908)
4) There was discussion about players having to wear a helmet w/face shield for his or her safety. Rules were amended to allow their voluntary use by participants. The idea of implementing a mandatory requirement was rejected. Base coaches couldn't escape the requirement of wearing a fielder's helmet. It won't be long before the issue returns to the discussion table.
Okay, what's your point?

SA, you are heading for another fall with this discussion! :rolleyes:

Kevin Finnerty Sun Dec 07, 2008 11:40am
Stubborn, old umpires.

I own one of these Wilson HSMs, and I have yet to use it. I prefer a mask. But if I was in the market for one, it certainly would be any one of the dozen or so that are designed for baseball and not this hoaky-looking thing--especially just because it's cheaper.

SAump Sun Dec 07, 2008 02:26pm
The chin strap
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ozzy6900
Okay, what's your point?

SA, you are heading for another fall with this discussion! :rolleyes:
I'd wear a football helmet if I thought I was in danger of falling. Every umpire thinks about reducing the risk of injury. One is taking a risk, however small the risk may be. Someone stated that the risk from a concussion while wearing a mask or HSM is about even. There is no evidence one offers any better protection than the other. The main idea is to significantly reduce the risk of concussion by removing the danger.

I believe those who say it easy to take off a HSM once they pass the "muscle memory" stage. Why would they be opposed to wearing a chin strap? It applies the same muscle memory requirement w/out the danger imposed by that dangling throat guard. If I were hit that hard, I rather worry about the integrity of the frame than my state of well-being? BIWSTFAD!

Matt Sun Dec 07, 2008 02:50pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by SAump (Post 556080)
I believe those who say it easy to take off a HSM once they pass the "muscle memory" stage.
I was an early convert to the HSM. I take it off anytime one would take off a conventional mask--always have, and always will. There never was a learning curve or "muscle memory."

Quote:
Originally Posted by SAump (Post 556080)
Why would they be opposed to wearing a chin strap? It applies the same muscle memory requirement w/out the danger imposed by that dangling throat guard.
Even you cannot be this obtuse. That strap secures in four points, of which two need to be unsnapped for removal. This helmet cannot be removed with one motion.

Also, to what danger are you referring? That sentence doesn't even make sense.

SAump Sun Dec 07, 2008 03:16pm
Its a snap!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt (Post 556084)
I was an early convert to the HSM. I take it off anytime one would take off a conventional mask--always have, and always will. There never was a learning curve or "muscle memory."
Some of us began at the back of the line. Remember removing the mask with your left hand. Remember the drills. Remember holding the indicator in your left hand or standing in front of the mirror. How many times did your plate hat fall off? Muscle-memory is that point when you can leave all the drills behind and do it right every time, like throwing a baseball or riding a bicycle.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt (Post 556084)
Even you cannot be this obtuse. That strap secures in four points, of which two need to be unsnapped for removal. This helmet cannot be removed with one motion.

Also, to what danger are you referring? That sentence doesn't even make sense.
BTW, Im not trying to be obtuse here. The ease of taking off a HSM is what is obtuse to me. The strange idea that only the attributes of a HSM are suitable for catchers and umpires floors me. I can't get a HSM up and over my head without difficulty. Here is another helmet, unsnap the thing and remove. How much easier is that? Much easier.

BigUmp56 Sun Dec 07, 2008 03:44pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by SAump (Post 556090)

.

I warped by the strange idea ...............
Finally something we can all agree on.


Tim

Matt Sun Dec 07, 2008 04:06pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by SAump (Post 556090)
Some of us began at the back of the line. Remember removing the mask with your left hand. Remember the drills. Remember holding the indicator in your left hand or standing in front of the mirror. How many times did your plate hat fall off?
So, you've moved from learning to take an HSM off to learning how to take a conventional mask off. Can you stay on subject for one post?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SAump (Post 556090)
Its was a snap to remove, not a combination lock. Unsnap the thing and remove. How it is any more difficult than taking off a HSM is obtuse to me. Whats the old saying, "Its a snap," mean to you?
Because one has to reach to the back, undo at least one (and probably two) snap(s), then reach to the front.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SAump (Post 556090)
The LSH doen't fit as tight as a baseball HSM so it is much easier to remove from your head.
Lacrosse helmets fit more tightly if worn properly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SAump (Post 556090)
How to remove a HSM with one hand is beyond me. Add a hockey throat guard and it is impossible to remove. BTW, Im not trying to be obtuse here.
The same way you grasp a conventional mask. You grab it on the left side of the jaw, pull forward and up, and it's off.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SAump (Post 556090)
I warped by the strange idea that a HSM is the only suitable baseball helmet on the market for catchers and umpires.
Form follows function. A helmet that is not designed for baseball is not likely to be as functional as one that is.

SAump Sun Dec 07, 2008 04:49pm
I made my point, snap.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt (Post 556097)
So, you've moved from learning to take an HSM off to learning how to take a conventional mask off. Can you stay on subject for one post?
The subject was muscle-memory. It applies to a comment you made about removing a helmet.
Quote:
Because one has to reach to the back, undo at least one (and probably two) snap(s), then reach to the front.
Lacrosse helmets fit more tightly if worn properly.
The same way you grasp a conventional mask. You grab it on the left side of the jaw, pull forward and up, and it's off.
Tight helmets give me a headache. Funny, reach back where to release the snap and where to remove the helmet. I thought it was decided long ago that if timing was a factor, one should leave the helmet on because of the peripheral vision advantage found in the helmet.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt (Post 556097)
Form follows function. A helmet that is not designed for baseball is not likely to be as functional as one that is.
I hear an expensive all-black plate shoe modeled after the NHL pro skate will soon be released. Very comfortable and awesome protection and durability. The designers of the hockey equipment wanted me to say, thank you, for the kind words about them.
http://sports-and-outdoors.become.co...ambigcatid=782
http://cgi.ebay.com/PLH-2000-Black-L...3A1%7C294%3A50
Enough about the strap, or snap, I thank you for your comments. I will reflect on them. Lets hear from others for a couple of pages and/or let the thread expire. Can the LaCrosse helmet take the shot and provide better protection for the user?

zm1283 Sun Dec 07, 2008 05:56pm
Aside from the fact that those lacrosse helmets look incredibly stupid, I wouldn't trust one while taking a foul tip on the face. (Especially if there was a hacksaw involved to saw some of the bars off)

I have a HSM and it is really easy to take off with one hand. It's pretty easy to put it back on with one hand too.


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