Worthy of Ejection?

[PeteBooth]

Tim normally I would agree with you but the mens league at least in my area play once a week, normally Sunday mornings. It costs them around $350-$400 to join which includes insurance, uniform costs and umpire Fees.

I realize I should not govern EJ's based on Financial reasons but in baseball unlike the other sports there is no penalty for unsportsmanlike acts other than Ejection.

Also, many of these guys played College semi-pro etc. so they KNOW what's going on. These are not 12 yr. olds although they act like it sometimes.

The "message" is not something I am going to do all game long, but at least from my experience in dealing with men's leagues it has worked and even though they get "hosed" on a strike 3 call at least they are still in the game.

In addition they are not suspended from the next game or have to pay a fine. (This league I umpired in had an automatic one game suspension if you got EJ'd plus they had to pay a $25.00 fine on top of that)

Therefore, at least for me this method has worked.

Pete Booth

[ozzy6900]

You know people, it really amazes me how many "know it alls" there are out there! I am willing to bet that most of you who are making statements about how "he said it loud enough to be heard" never umpired anything above HS! Now Tim (BU56), has officiated this level and ceased for the same reasons that I did - constant abuse from "want to bees that never were"! This isn't LL or HS, people, these people let you know in no uncertain terms if you screw up - either in their opinion or for real! Pete & Dash both know what I am talking about here, the games can run smooth or be hell. And if you get under the skin of one of these hot-shot managers, your night can be pure hell.

So comments fly back and forth and as we tell you all on this board, much of this craft is having a thick skin. In my territory, it was not uncommon for the local Police to have backup arrive to escort the umpires to their cars under the bleachers. This particular league became so out of hand that almost a dozen of us walked out in mid-season. That was 1998 and I have not been back since! (I am getting too old for that crap now)

Anyway, back to my admonishment of some of you out there. If you think that you can officiate a men's league or NCAA level by the same standards as you would HS kids, you are going to have a very short career with them. They will chew you up and spit out the bones. It's no shame to be on this board and only have officiated youth or HS. Just stop trying to tell us how you would do this and that when you haven't even gotten to that level.

Peace

[RPatrino]

1,2,5 and 7 after the game.

[tballump]

Originally Posted by ozzy6900

This particular league became so out of hand that almost a dozen of us walked out in mid-season. That was 1998 and I have not been back since! (I am getting too old for that crap now)

A league is only as good as how the person/people in charge "back" the umpires and run the league. This includes the punishments handed out for unsportsmanlike conduct/deportment.

[umpduck11]

Originally Posted by PeteBooth

Tim normally I would agree with you but the mens league at least in my area play once a week, normally Sunday mornings. It costs them around $350-$400 to join which includes insurance, uniform costs and umpire Fees.

Pete Booth

If they want their money's worth of baseball, I'd recommend they not act like that. I don't give a rip how much they pay to play, they're not paying me extra to listen to their BS.

[tballump]

Originally Posted by PeteBooth

(This league I umpired in had an automatic one game suspension if you got EJ'd plus they had to pay a $25.00 fine on top of that)

Pete Booth

Sounds like a good deterrent for unsportsmanlike conduct, and sounds like a league that "backs" its umpires. Or, is that league rule just a smokescreen and they "blackball" umpires who eject?

[PeteBooth]

No this particular league didn't want any non-sense but as with other things in life once their is a new "management team" things change.

Like Ozzy I too do not umpire mens leagues any-more. It is simply not worth it. Generally speaking Mens leagues are the worst type games you will encounter.

You try and treat them like men but they act like fools and eventually no-one wants to umpire these games.

Pete Booth

[Emperor Ump]

While men's leagues do have a reputation (well deserved), I had a pretty good season this year, something seemed to have changed. I heard less whining, there were fewer EJs and all went relatively smoothly. You're always going to have those individuals who like to act like a$$es, but it wasn't as wide spread as before.

[jkumpire]

Let me throw my .02 in here.

I am a member of the clergy, and I umpire men's adult and college BB, with former pro players in the leagues I work as well as lower levels. I have a rather dim view of anyone using the F-bomb any time I hear it, no matter who says it. The same goes for Damn, hell, and all kinds of other "colorful metaphors". Our culture is rapidly going down the chute, and it is this kind of behavior and language which is a sure sign of it. It did not used to be this way. And if I can, I will in a private manner ask them to knock it off. This does work, if you do it right.

However, if I hear it and F2 hears it only, then I can let it go and deal with it in other ways before ejection, unless it is being used to show me up, or the crowd starts to hear it. If the F-Bomb was the start of a conforontation, dump him now, if not deal with it in another way.

Most players who play on that level and have a clue know you cuss out towards the outfield, not at anyone, and don't use it to show the umpire up. And they also know that if they use it at me or any good ump on strike two, then the zone just got big time wider and he had better be swinging. There are times when strikes and outs are the best discipline for rowdy players, and a good F2 for the other team makes life real easy one you!

If he then decides to further do things, then he is deciding to eject himself.

Which leads me to the question I would ask our first poster: Did anything else happen earlier in the game that gave you a reason to eject him? Did he go after you in a previous AB, or was there a lot of people riding you about a call or your zone?

I frankly think your assigner should have walked you through why this was not a good ejection IHO, instead of just saying so.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by jkumpire

I frankly think your assigner should have walked you through why this was not a good ejection IHO, instead of just saying so.

Precisely. An explanation would have been in order.

[BigUmp56]

Originally Posted by jkumpire

Let me throw my .02 in here.

I am a member of the clergy, and I umpire men's adult and college BB, with former pro players in the leagues I work as well as lower levels. I have a rather dim view of anyone using the F-bomb any time I hear it, no matter who says it. The same goes for Damn, hell, and all kinds of other "colorful metaphors". Our culture is rapidly going down the chute, and it is this kind of behavior and language which is a sure sign of it. It did not used to be this way. And if I can, I will in a private manner ask them to knock it off. This does work, if you do it right.

However, if I hear it and F2 hears it only, then I can let it go and deal with it in other ways before ejection, unless it is being used to show me up, or the crowd starts to hear it. If the F-Bomb was the start of a conforontation, dump him now, if not deal with it in another way.

Most players who play on that level and have a clue know you cuss out towards the outfield, not at anyone, and don't use it to show the umpire up. And they also know that if they use it at me or any good ump on strike two, then the zone just got big time wider and he had better be swinging. There are times when strikes and outs are the best discipline for rowdy players, and a good F2 for the other team makes life real easy one you!

If he then decides to further do things, then he is deciding to eject himself.

Which leads me to the question I would ask our first poster: Did anything else happen earlier in the game that gave you a reason to eject him? Did he go after you in a previous AB, or was there a lot of people riding you about a call or your zone?

I frankly think your assigner should have walked you through why this was not a good ejection IHO, instead of just saying so.

Would you eject an adult player for telling you you've made "a terrible call" loud enough for all to hear?

If not, would you eject the same player in the same situation if he'd said you've made a "fu*^^*ing terrible call"?


Tim.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by BigUmp56

Would you eject an adult player for telling you you've made "a terrible call" loud enough for all to hear?

No.

Originally Posted by BigUmp56

If not, would you eject the same player in the same situation if he'd said you've made a "fu*^^*ing terrible call"?

No.

BTW, what is "fu*^^*ing" anyway? I counted the letters and they don't add up.

[jkumpire]

Originally Posted by BigUmp56

Would you eject an adult player for telling you you've made "a terrible call" loud enough for all to hear?

If not, would you eject the same player in the same situation if he'd said you've made a "fu*^^*ing terrible call"?


Tim.

1. No, there needs to be more there than that.
2. Possibly, but the F-Bomb makes it more likely.

My point, sometimes you have to use a stiletto instead of a broadsword to deal with situations like this. If it is any kind of serious baseball going on, strikes, outs, and a well placed word can do the job better than an ejection.

But with my philosophy being that players and managers eject themselves, not me, then the times the guy needs to go, and the times he doesn't become pretty clear when you see them.