Orioles-Yankees Game

[JR12]

Bottom 3, 1 out, Huff at bat. Line drive up the middle. The ball looks like a heat seeking missle, locked in on 2nd base umpire Ed Rappa(something). who is deep B. At the last second he spreads his legs and the ball goes through them and into CF for an RBI single.
Then the brilliant HOF pitcher now commentator Jim Palmer says "had that hit 2b ump it would have been a live ball". I have also heard him more than once say "tie goes to the runner"

[BigUmp56]

Why wouldn't the ball remain live if Rapuano was in deep B and the ball hit him....

Tim.

[umpduck11]

Originally Posted by BigUmp56

Why wouldn't the ball remain live if Rapuano was in deep B and the ball hit him....

Tim.

If a batted ball strikes an umpire before passing an infielder, other than the pitcher, doesn't the ball become dead, with BR going to first, and any forced runners advancing one base ?

Chuck

[umpjong]

Originally Posted by umpduck11

If a batted ball strikes an umpire before passing an infielder, other than the pitcher, doesn't the ball become dead, with BR going to first, and any forced runners advancing one base ?

Chuck

You are correct.

Rule 5.09(f) Comment: If a fair ball touches an umpire working in the infield after it has bounded past, or over, the pitcher, it is a dead ball. If a batted ball is deflected by a fielder in fair territory and hits a runner or an umpire while still in flight and then caught by an infielder it shall not be a catch, but the ball shall remain in play.

[DG]

Originally Posted by MrUmpire

I believe BigUmp56's point is that U2 in DEEP B may very likely be behind the fielders on this play.

Not likely.

[JR12]

Originally Posted by MrUmpire

I believe BigUmp56's point is that U2 in DEEP B may very likely be behind the fielders on this play.

Ump was on the infield grass in deep B. If it had struck him it would have been a dead ball and cost the Orioles a run. I don't know how he avoided it.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by MrUmpire

I believe BigUmp56's point is that U2 in DEEP B may very likely be behind the fielders on this play.

Even if the infield was playing way in on the grass (which they weren't), U2 is still supposed to set up in front, not behind, the infielders. If U2 is hit, ball is dead, batter credited with a single and all forced runners advance. Not forced, no advance. Sucks for them .

[Keefj200]

I have also heard HOF Joe Morgan say on two occasions that a tie goes to the runner. His broadcast partner, in both instances, replied - The runner has to beat the throw. He left it at that...never wishing to be confrontational with Joe.

[greymule]

He left it at that...never wishing to be confrontational with Joe.

I've sometimes wondered what I would do if I were an announcer and the other guy said something outrageously wrong, like hands part of bat or has to hold a catch for 3 seconds.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by w_sohl

I thought from the OP that the ump was in the outfield grass...

Deep B is on the edge of the infield grass. Regular B used in 2-man and some 3-man situations but is not used in 4-man mechanics. I don't know the term for U2 standing in the outfield when there is no one on base or R3 only. I guess it's called "standing in the outfield."

[JR12]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

Deep B is on the edge of the infield grass. Regular B used in 2-man and some 3-man situations but is not used in 4-man mechanics. I don't know the term for U2 standing in the outfield when there is no one on base or R3 only. I guess it's called "standing in the outfield."

Steve, I think it's refered to as "the pasture" or E.

[BigUmp56]

I'm by no means an authority on four man mechanics. But there was no mention in the OP of there being any runners at the time of the incident. Seems to me, and apparently I'm wrong, that with no runners on base - the second base umpire would be positioned behind the fielders.


Tim.

[tballump]

Glad Ed Rapuano on good old Cowboy Joe's crew was not hurt.

Concerning the "tie" issue. I thought that was something worn with a suit.

I believe rule 609 j and 708 e contradict each other by saying the runner must "beat" the throw in one, and the other says the throw must "beat" the runner. This was maddening to a philospher (Eric Bronson) who was reading the Rule Book, when he found that the ball and runner arriving at the same time could be ruled either way.

I imagine (just guessing) the umpires pick one or the other interpretation and stick with it for the bang-bang (or banger) play, or maybe they let the "play" decide the one used. A good fielding play would be rewarded in the fielders favor and a poorly fielded play in the runners favor. I'm sure you guys who are friends with the MLU and MiLB and DIV 1 can expound on this if you haven't on plenty of other posts in the past.

Palmer keeps ball hitting ump alive, Morgan gives the tie to the runner, and McCarver doesn't like McClelland's slow strike call. What's next?

But what do I know. I just put the ball on the tee and watch out for kids throwing the bat and try not to get hit.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by BigUmp56

I'm by no means an authority on four man mechanics. But there was no mention in the OP of there being any runners at the time of the incident. Seems to me, and apparently I'm wrong, that with no runners on base - the second base umpire would be positioned behind the fielders.


Tim.

Well Timster, I must fill you in then:

A) The OP mentioned that it was a RBI single, which means there was someone somewhere on a base.

B) Deep B is an infield position, not the outfield, which I just found out is called "The Pasture," or "E." So in "Deep B," U2 is in front of the fielders, so the batted ball is dead if it hits him.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by tballump

I believe rule 609 j and 708 e contradict each other .

That would be 605 (j). I like 7.08 (e) much better.