Mechanics Question

[bossman72]

This question was posed to me at our last meeting and I didn't have a good answer...

R3 only. Playing at a field with lots of space between the foul lines and DBT. Batter hits a pop up near the first base dugout. The pitcher is sleeping on the play and isn't paying attention. Seeing nobody at home, R3 decides to tag and try to score.

Since the PU has ran out with the catcher to see the catch, who has the subsequent play at the plate?

[gordon30307]

PU. Touches and tags at 3rd and the play at the plate.

[kylejt]

You don't say how many umpires are on the field. Someone is going to have the tag up at third, and that pretty much rules them out for a play at the plate because of the angle. If you have an umpire at first, with a three or four man crew, I'd expect U1 to cover the dish with the PU so far from home.

I don't know if it's covered in any manual, but it's just common sense.

[bossman72]

kyle, it's 2 man

[Rich]

Originally Posted by kylejt

You don't say how many umpires are on the field. Someone is going to have the tag up at third, and that pretty much rules them out for a play at the plate because of the angle. If you have an umpire at first, with a three or four man crew, I'd expect U1 to cover the dish with the PU so far from home.

I don't know if it's covered in any manual, but it's just common sense.

With an umpire at first on the play the OP cited, I'd expect U1 going to the fence with the popup and the plate umpire to make sure he could get to the plate.

In 2-man, good luck. PU has it all.

[RPatrino]

I think in this situation. as the PU I'm not going to 'run out' to watch the catch. I would track the catcher, while moving back from the plate to maintain as much angle as I can to be able to see the catch and watch the tag, and still try to stay close enough to the plate to cover the play at the plate.

2 Man is a series of 'compromises'. This is just another of them.

[kylejt]

You're either watching the catch, or watching the tagup. You have two umpires, so divide it up. It's hard to imagine U1 coming in from C to call the catch. I think in a play like it's instinct and communication that would be key. U1 HAS to have the tagup. PU has to communicate who has the dish on this during the play.

[jdmara]

As the PU, the correct response to the screaming coach is "you should pony up the dough and hire more umpires!"

PU has it all, in my opinion. It's the same situation of who looks at all the runners on a pop fly with bases loaded. It is impossible to see EVERYTHING when you have one of the umpires watching the ball. Something is bound to be missed. Good question though

-Josh

[Rich]

Originally Posted by kylejt

You're either watching the catch, or watching the tagup. You have two umpires, so divide it up. It's hard to imagine U1 coming in from C to call the catch. I think in a play like it's instinct and communication that would be key. U1 HAS to have the tagup. PU has to communicate who has the dish on this during the play.

Patchwork umpiring.

The PU has it all. You don't have to line it up perfectly to determine if someone left early -- if it's really close, he didn't. Go as far as you can while still being able to get back and set for a play at the plate.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

Patchwork umpiring.

The PU has it all. You don't have to line it up perfectly to determine if someone left early -- if it's really close, he didn't. Go as far as you can while still being able to get back and set for a play at the plate.

True, but, especially if the ball is clearly foul, BU can help with the tag-up.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

True, but, especially if the ball is clearly foul, BU can help with the tag-up.

Absolutely. I would do this myself. However, on an appeal, I would make certain that the plate umpire welcomed my input and I'd be happy to make the call if we had signaled to each other.

As the plate umpire, though, I would be prepared to take the whole thing, especially if the partner wasn't familiar.

[PeteBooth]

On your play, since the ball is FOUL, the BU does not have to worry about the BR, so if discussed in Pre-game the BU could aid his partner and take the tag play at third base.

IMO, the following play is a drawback of the 2 person system.

R3 Troubled ball hit down the right field line. Since the ball is OUTSIDE the "V" the PU has the catch no-catch. Also, if it's near the line Fair / Foul come into play. Also, as mentioned it's a troubled ball meaning fielder could be diving for the ball a shoestring etc.

The BU has to watch B1 touch the bases and also take him into second base should the BR try and "stretch it" especially if it's a trouble ball.

The PU can only go so far because in addition to fair / Foul; Catch / no catch he has the tag up of R3 and also be in position for a potential play at the plate.

In a 2 person system we cannot be everywhere and there are drawbacks.

Pete Booth

[RPatrino]

Same problem with R1 and R2, trouble ball down right field line.

For flyball where U1 has the V, in our pre-game we agree that U1 will have the tag at second, PU will take R2 into 3rd on the advance. U1 will have the tagup at 1b into second and any back door at first on the BR.

With the trouble ball down the RF line, we switch it up like this. U1 will have the TAG AND the advance of R2 into third. PU will take any tag by R1, since he is moving up the line anyway, as well as any advance by R1 and BR. This is a kluge for sure, but it covers almost all the contingencies.