Appeal questions

Originally Posted by Illini_Ref

Case 8.2.2 Situation E

RULING: Since the runner has initiated action to return, the defense must tag him unless it is a force play, in which case all they would need to do is touch the base with the ball.

Wouldn't my above post constitute a force play?

Because for the sake of a force play, once the runner passes the base, he is assumed "safe" until a proper appeal is made.

Now, you could have a situation where, runner misses 2nd, they throw back and try to tag him while fielder is standing on base and he secured the ball standing on base before runner returned and play was made, still safe, then the fielder appeals him missing second.

I am banging him!

[DownTownTonyBrown]

Originally Posted by rei

Because for the sake of a force play, once the runner passes the base, he is assumed "safe" until a proper appeal is made.

Now, you could have a situation where, runner misses 2nd, they throw back and try to tag him while fielder is standing on base and he secured the ball standing on base before runner returned and play was made, still safe, then the fielder appeals him missing second.

I am banging him!

Absolutely right!

Same as missing 1st before the ball arrives. Runner is safe until appealed.

With only a slight extention, runner misses second on his way to 3rd is considered to have touched until appealed ... therefore tag him or appeal.

[greymule]

Haven't heard from you in a long while, DownTownTonyBrown! Were you on a secret mission somewhere?

[Illini_Ref]

I understand that many of you are basing this on the interpretation that a runner has obtained a base (and if forced, force removed) when a runner passes a base whether touching it or not.

However, is this a NF interpretation and if so, where can I find it?

Also, nobody has addressed the ruling in 8.2.2E. It clearly states that a runner returning to touch a missed base needs to be tagged UNLESS it is a force, then the base only need be tagged. That implies that a runner missing a forced base does NOT remove the force.

Using this ruling I get this:

R1 on first, batter hit a grounder to third, R1 is stealing on the pitch and the play is at second. R1 beats the throw and slides into second and misses the bag and passes it. R1 is diving back when the second baseman with the ball steps on second.

By the case ruling the runner is out without a tag. Am I reading that wrong????

[mbyron]

I'll reiterate what Bob J. said above, but divide the question in two.

1. for the purpose of a missed base appeal, passing the base does not remove the force.
2. for the purpose of determining whether the runner beat the throw, passing the base does remove the force.

By (1), to appeal the missed base, stepping on the base AND saying "he missed the base" (or otherwise making it obvious that the defense was appealing) would suffice.

By (2), to make a play on the runner, the runner would have to be tagged.

[Illini_Ref]

Nobody is addressing the case in question. The casebook is clear that a runner returning to a missed base (un-relaxed action) has to be tagged UNLESS it is a force play, in which case a tag is not necessary. Why am I so confused by that?

So what mbyron is saying that if the play is at second and the runner overslides and misses the base, the force is off. However, is he is forced to second and rounds without a play and misses, the force is still on? Do I have that right?