Adult League in Turmoil

[canadaump6]

This is a continuation of the "Was it too much?" thread. I would like to get some suggestions on what the league I play in could do to make working games for them more appealing to umpires.

In the case of this league, it's the 5% or so that ruin things for everyone else involved. The sad thing is that there is talent in the league. A lot of players have semi-pro experience, but choose to play in the rec league for various reasons.

The league itself is in a bit of turmoil this year. We are struggling to get diamonds booked because the players terrorized one of the umpires who happens to also be responsible for booking diamonds. We have had umpires fear for their safety doing this league, and one even walked off the field to avoid harm. The player abuse of umpires has been a constant trend over the years.

The league goes 9 innings which often means 4 hours. I enjoy it, but the umpires are fed up with working games that drag on forever, plus sometimes driving 25 minutes without compensation, just to make $40 before getting up for work the next morning.

What would you guys recommend the league do to retain more umpires? There has been talk about a pay raise, going to 7 inning games, further disciplinary action with ejected participants, and even using wooden bats to speed things up. Comments would be appreciated.

[dash_riprock]

Originally Posted by canadaump6

We are struggling to get diamonds booked because the players terrorized one of the umpires who happens to also be responsible for booking diamonds. We have had umpires fear for their safety doing this league, and one even walked off the field to avoid harm. The player abuse of umpires has been a constant trend over the years.

How about letting them provide their own f@#*ing umpires for a season or two.

[BigTex]

Originally Posted by canadaump6

In the case of this league, it's the 5% or so that ruin things for everyone else involved.

Seems like a recurring theme around here.

[bob jenkins]

My guess is that "everyone" knows who the 5% are. Kick them out of the league. (iow, put in place a suspension system for in-game and post-game problems).

4 hours is way too long for an amateur 9-inning game. Enforce the pace-of-game rules, and / or make week-night games 7 innings and weekend games 9-innings.

The "commissioner" (or board, or league president) needs to be involved and not take the side of the players / managers.

[PeteBooth]

[QUOTE]

Originally Posted by canadaump6

We are struggling to get diamonds booked because the players terrorized one of the umpires who happens to also be responsible for booking diamonds. We have had umpires fear for their safety doing this league, and one even walked off the field to avoid harm. The player abuse of umpires has been a constant trend over the years.

The league goes 9 innings which often means 4 hours. I enjoy it, but the umpires are fed up with working games that drag on forever, plus sometimes driving 25 minutes without compensation, just to make $40 before getting up for work the next morning.

I do not know what laws you have in Canada but here in the states if someone is threating someone or an umpire has to avoid harm then you have the individuals arrested.

In addition these individuals are permantly banned from the league.

There needs to be strict enforcement from EVERYONE involved about player activity and it should be severe.

In addtion you need to put Time llimits on these adult mens leagues games otherwise as yousaid they will last forever.

Pete Booth

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

My guess is that "everyone" knows who the 5% are. Kick them out of the league. (iow, put in place a suspension system for in-game and post-game problems).

4 hours is way too long for an amateur 9-inning game. Enforce the pace-of-game rules, and / or make week-night games 7 innings and weekend games 9-innings.

The "commissioner" (or board, or league president) needs to be involved and not take the side of the players / managers.

This would do the trick. Notice that Bob's first suggestion is not preemptive suspension, but rather the institution of suspension policies. These should be progressive, for instance: 2nd ejection, miss 2 games; 3rd ejection, miss 5 games; 4th ejection in a season, banned from the league.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by mbyron

This would do the trick. Notice that Bob's first suggestion is not preemptive suspension, but rather the institution of suspension policies. These should be progressive, for instance: 2nd ejection, miss 2 games; 3rd ejection, miss 5 games; 4th ejection in a season, banned from the league.

You're just too nice a guy, Mike.

We've had similar problems over the years in basketball with a mens rec league and in football with a mens flag league. We told them both that the only way that they would get officials is (1) first ejection is one game, and (2) second ejection is the rest of the year. If contact was involved in either ejection, it would immediately be a lifetime ban. We also told them that there was zero tolerance, with no recourse for any ejection. Iow, a player got one kick at the can.

If they truly want to clean their leagues up, they'll agree. If they don't, let 'em do their own damn games.

[TussAgee11]

Don't know much about exchange rates or where in Canada you live... but I believe it is about 1:1 these days. 40 bucks for 9 innings?

I know each area is different, but this seems remarkably low. Perhaps an increase in pay along with these suspension guidelines will get you some umpires.

The adult leagues I work in CT are extremely respectful. One time I missed a pitch pretty bad, rookie year, I'm an 18 year old kid, they could have lit a fire under my ***. Only thing I heard from the dugout was, "Ok, it's hot back there, don't worry about it batter"

I'll ask around and see what they did in order to get them that way.

[CO ump]

The Canadian dollar is strong but not that strong. $40 for a nine inning game!! That's ridiculous.
Last year we got $75 around here and that's probably 5 or 10 too low.

I agree with all the above posters as well, change the culture of the league quickly with fast and fair ejections, suspensions and bannings. Pay a fair game fee and find a way to speed up the games and you'll prosper with better players, better competition and plenty of umpires.

[socalblue1]

We had an issue with a regional (Non-MSBL) men's league a while back. Went from fairly mellow (At least as much as large group of over age adolescents will ever be) to a real PITA.

The four umpire associations got together and began sharing all ejection/incident information, then wrote a very strongly worded letter to the league and each manager outlining the problems and advising that a zero tolerance policy would immediately be put into effect.

Short story - no changes. So we took the path of "you want you get". Each ejection report was e-mailed out every day to the assignors. They added the next scheduled game information and forwarded it out to the group. If the player showed up to play he (Duh) and the manager were both ejected, game forfeited and the crew left.

Two weeks later the trouble makers were forced out by peer pressure and the league has been for the most part no problem. The BOD went further the next year - 2 game suspension 1st ejection, 5 for second & balance of season for 3rd.

[BretMan]

I played in our local MSBL for about eight years and can't recall any real troublemakers or problems. The expectations for conduct were laid out up front and known to all participants.

It also helped that the umpires were generally well-trained, experienced and had great game management skills.

Now that I'm not playing in the league, I umpire in it from time-to-time and haven't had any problems.

Due to time constraints and scheduling, I'm now playing in a men's fastpitch softball league. The league is pretty mellow, but there is one team with a couple of noted hotheads.

Last year that team was involved in a bench clearing incident, the first thing like that I've ever seen in that league. It got pretty ugly.

The following week, the league commissioner got all teams together before the games and read them the riot act. Those involved in the bench-clearing incident received two week suspensions.

Haven't seen another problem since.

[umpduck11]

A few seasons ago, a pitcher in the local MSBL league was ejected for histrionics on the mound over balls and strikes. He proceeded to get in the face of the umpire, and in the process, made contact with the umpire. The BOD expelled him from the league immediately. There have been very few ejections since.

[waltjp]

Originally Posted by canadaump6

This is a continuation of the "Was it too much?" thread. I would like to get some suggestions on what the league I play in could do to make working games for them more appealing to umpires.

In the case of this league, it's the 5% or so that ruin things for everyone else involved. The sad thing is that there is talent in the league. A lot of players have semi-pro experience, but choose to play in the rec league for various reasons.

The league itself is in a bit of turmoil this year. We are struggling to get diamonds booked because the players terrorized one of the umpires who happens to also be responsible for booking diamonds. We have had umpires fear for their safety doing this league, and one even walked off the field to avoid harm. The player abuse of umpires has been a constant trend over the years.

The league goes 9 innings which often means 4 hours. I enjoy it, but the umpires are fed up with working games that drag on forever, plus sometimes driving 25 minutes without compensation, just to make $40 before getting up for work the next morning.

What would you guys recommend the league do to retain more umpires? There has been talk about a pay raise, going to 7 inning games, further disciplinary action with ejected participants, and even using wooden bats to speed things up. Comments would be appreciated.

You need a commissioner with a set of b@lls who is willing to back the officials and suspend/expell the trouble makers as required.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

You're just too nice a guy, Mike.

If they truly want to clean their leagues up, they'll agree. If they don't, let 'em do their own damn games.

That's a charitable reading. I guess I agree that adults should know better. As Twain said, if you make the same mistake more than once, it's a bad habit.

[mandotheman]

I used to umpire here in Tx for the mexican league, same thing here 9 inns, $40. No control of the players and coaches, the league finally agreed to $50 but still no time limit. Some umpires kept getting threating and got fed up with it. The good umpires finally had enough and left, now the league has to deal with inexperience umpires that dont have a clue about baseball.