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Wed May 22, 2002, 10:40pm
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2 Questions:
1. Guy is fouled with .5 Secs left before half. Shooting one and one. I cleared the lane. Is that a bad call? 2. Shooter on a fast break. Defensive player slaps his hand. I immediately blow my whistle. While players momentum takes them out of bounds, offensive player throws the ball in the back of the defensive player. I call a Technical on offensive player. Any comments will help. I did learn one thing though. I am retiring from adult men league officiating. s/f 
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Wed May 22, 2002, 10:46pm
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2. "The hand is part of the ball" - this probably shouldn't have been a foul in the first place. Having said this, the technical foul is definitely warrented.
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Duane Galle P.s. I'm a FIBA referee - so all my posts are metric Visit www.geocities.com/oz_referee
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Wed May 22, 2002, 10:57pm
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Good call on the T, possible ejection.
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Wed May 22, 2002, 11:11pm
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Two questions back atcha
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(2) You said the foul was with 0.5 left. Did the clock stop at 0.5, or did it expire?
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"To win the game is great. To play the game is greater. But to love the game is the greatest of all."
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Thu May 23, 2002, 12:10am
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1. Why are you doing jerkball? 2. Why did it take so long for you to quit doing jerkball?
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Yom HaShoah
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Thu May 23, 2002, 05:31am
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There is no such thing as "ADULT" men's league. My younger son (27) and several of his friends have joined an "adult" league that I officiate (actually a pretty good/competitive league), and he asked me if I would be doing any of his games. I told him he better hope not because his mom will not be there to "defend" him.
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Never argue with an idiot. He will bring you down to his level and beat you with experience.
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Thu May 23, 2002, 08:15am
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2. "The hand is part of the ball" - this probably shouldn't have been a foul in the first place.
Not necessarily as a blanket statement right? I don't have my rulebook with me, but doesn't it say that slapping the hand is only a "non-foul" if the offensive player is holding or dribbling the ball or something to that effect? Z
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Thu May 23, 2002, 08:23am
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Okay my bad on saying only the hand, but it was actually more of the wrist. It was definately a foul. I was just wondering about the play after the whistle.
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Thu May 23, 2002, 10:48am
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Thu May 23, 2002, 11:23am
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I have played in and seen "adult" leagues where the officiating was so bad (present company excluded)that the players would keep going no matter how much contact there was. Did the offensive player throw the ball out of anger at being fouled, or did he throw it with the intent of deflecting it off of the defensive player to regain possesion on an out of bounds call? If thrown in anger, definite "T"..If not..then play on. Quote:
Speaking from personal experience...this is a wise decision.
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It's what you learn after you think you know it all that's important!
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Thu May 23, 2002, 11:32am
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My question why give up men's leagues?
I agree that sometimes they are a pain in the *&^, but this is where you get experience. Would you have learned to play the 1+1? or learned about the T call in a high school game? You screw up in a rec game it is not nearly as big a problem as messing up in a HS game. You'll be under a lot more scrutiny in HS. Do men's games, just dont put up with the extraneous crap. heck I have no problem with Drake and my reputation that we have the quickest triggers in the west when it comes to T's in rec ball. Maybe they'll learn to shut up!
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Thu May 23, 2002, 11:42am
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1. As others have said, it is not the correct call. Why? Because the ball becomes playable if A1 (the shooter) misses the first shot when it touches/or is touched by a player. An A team member could get the rebound and sink a basket before the horn sounds. Same holds for the second shot of a 1 + 1. It is conceivable, but not probable, that B could score off of the missed shot. 2. Dont get caught in the hand is part of the ball trap. The hand is only part of the ball if the ball is touching the hand. This takes place mostly when A1 is shooting or is holding the ball. On a dribble make darn sure that the ball and A1 hand is in contact when B1 hits A1 hand. Think of the advantage B1 would gain if he/she were allowed to whack A1s hand away from path the returning ball because The hand is part of the ball. 2.1 Without seeing the play I am not sure what you are saying. Is the throwing back of the ball and the momentum out of bounds all part of the same play? Or, did the player gain possession of the ball (a one play/situation) and then throw it into the back of the other player. (A two play/situation) If the going out of bounds and the throwing/flinging/scooping/batting the ball back onto the court is all part of the one play/situation AND you do not feel that A1 tried to hit B1 the I would have a No Call The key for me is the intent of the throw. Was it a deliberate action? In the 2-play/situation scenario it most likely was, if so, a T is warranted. BUT if not, I would have a no call. Plus, a game management problem.  [Edited by RecRef on May 23rd, 2002 at 03:40 PM]
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Thu May 23, 2002, 08:53pm
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Oops, I saw ADULT and I guess it wasn't the ADULT I thought it was! Having said that, calling the slap on the hand in Rec Ball is probably a good thing. It made a smacking sound and they were probably clamoring for you to call "something" As for the ball be thrown at the player, I must agree and say that if the player was just trying to save the ball no big whoop
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Thu May 23, 2002, 11:35pm
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Not necessarily as a blanket statement right? I don't have my rulebook with me, but doesn't it say that slapping the hand is only a "non-foul" if the offensive player is holding or dribbling the ball or something to that effect?
Z No such restriction (holding or dribbling) is in the rule. OK, found it (Rule 4-24-2): The rule is that the players hand must still be in contact with the ball when the defender hits the hand. "It is legal use of hands to reach to block or slap the ball controlled by a dribbler or a player throwing for goal or a player holding it and accidentally hitting the hand of the opponent when it is in contact with the ball."
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Fri May 24, 2002, 01:02pm
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R,
You started a monster here. In response to Mark's question: The clock was stopped with .5 seconds. Probably the only time this season that the clock was stopped correctly (per the league guidelines). I am inclined to agree with you on the retiring aspect. Haven't decided yet. I have decided that my son will not attend their summer youth b-ball camp. How can they teach sportsmanship when their actions are totally opposite? Unless they are taching only skills and techniques and sportsmanship is no longer a factor in the game. This is a small town and everyone knows everyone (Most of the players in this league are our kids teachers). Having said that, they have a hard time understanding that there are players and there are officials on the court. I have found that dealing with the youth league and those kids' parents is far more enjoyable than listening to a bunch of grown men complain about everything. Last night I even gave my rule book to one of the players so he could "research" his plea. Strange though, he preferred not to look it up, but to continue his ranting. Oh, BTW, enjoy the championship game. I'll think about ya'll while I am traveling.
__________________
If you are going to be stupid, be all the way stupid!
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