Adult League in Turmoil

[IceGator8]

The Utah MSBL pays fifty per game with a no new inning after three hours time limit. It works out pretty well and there is not trouble finding umpires.

[tiger49]

Here in Ottawa, Canada men's league pays $45 for plate and $35 for bases. Games are 7 innings but the time limit is kinda messed up, the rules state that it is 2 hours and 15 minutes but is shortend to 2 hours for most games.

Rule was set when weekday game times were at 6 and 8:30 but now they are 6:15 and 8:30 with lights going out at 11pm in the city. So in order to keep things on time the rule has unoffically changed to no new inning after 8:15 for the early game and 10:45 for the late game.

We have had a couple of problem in the past but the league has really cut down on that in the last couple of years. I think it was more from some umpires putting up with too much, thus things got out of hand.

Alot of problems in men's leagues start from the fact there is no real manager and all the players pay the same, therefore all feel they should get equal say.

In the five years in the league I think I may have tossed one manager, but 30-40 players (each year I get a game with 4-5 ejections).

[Rich]

Originally Posted by tiger49

Here in Ottawa, Canada men's league pays $45 for plate and $35 for bases. Games are 7 innings but the time limit is kinda messed up, the rules state that it is 2 hours and 15 minutes but is shortend to 2 hours for most games.

Rule was set when weekday game times were at 6 and 8:30 but now they are 6:15 and 8:30 with lights going out at 11pm in the city. So in order to keep things on time the rule has unoffically changed to no new inning after 8:15 for the early game and 10:45 for the late game.

We have had a couple of problem in the past but the league has really cut down on that in the last couple of years. I think it was more from some umpires putting up with too much, thus things got out of hand.

Alot of problems in men's leagues start from the fact there is no real manager and all the players pay the same, therefore all feel they should get equal say.

In the five years in the league I think I may have tossed one manager, but 30-40 players (each year I get a game with 4-5 ejections).

I don't work leagues where they want to pay the base umpire less than the plate umpire.

[BretMan]

Me either- unless they want me to be the plate umpire!

Seriously, I hate that practice. Both umpires have the same expense in getting to the field, equipment (okay, so the base umpire just doesn't happen to be wearing his at the moment), training, registration, etc.

Both have equal- if not identical- responsibilities during the game and an equal expectation that their duties are carried out correctly. And, depending on how the game plays out, the base umpire will be hustling and running and exerting just as much effort as the plate man- if not more.

No leagues I'm aware of in my area have this "split" pay scale- and I'm happy with that!

[tiger49]

Bret, Rich

They do that because we have a few guys who only do bases. We need these guys to pick up games during the summer months as others take holidays. I figure about 75% of the games I do in this league, I am behind the plate.

[MrUmpire]

Originally Posted by tiger49

Bret, Rich

They do that because we have a few guys who only do bases. We need these guys to pick up games during the summer months as others take holidays. I figure about 75% of the games I do in this league, I am behind the plate.

I agree with RichMSN. I would never work games in which base umpires received less than plate umpires. Many times, the BU has the majority of the close and key plays. Overall, his training, expenses and responsibilities are no less that the PU.

What if the plate ump goes down? What then happens with the "base only" umpires?

There is no justification for different pay for the two positions and there is no justification for a base only umpire. If you're incapable of doing the whole job, you're incapable of doing the job.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by tiger49

Bret, Rich

They do that because we have a few guys who only do bases. We need these guys to pick up games during the summer months as others take holidays. I figure about 75% of the games I do in this league, I am behind the plate.

Well, I would be one less umpire they had because of that practice. I refuse to work 100% plates and I refuse to make less than someone else working the game, so I'd be out.

[PeteBooth]

[QUOTE]

Originally Posted by MrUmpire

I agree with RichMSN. I Many times, the BU has the majority of the close and key plays. Overall, his training, expenses and responsibilities are no less that the PU.

I agree with Rich and yourself about different pay 100% however I disagree with your statement

the BU's responsibilities are no less that the PU

You make a "name" for yourself in doing the dish Also, in today's 2 person mechanics the PU does have MORE responsibility than the BU.

The PU has to

1. Call the Pitch (which you have to be focused)
2. Fair / Foul if the ball is hit
3. If the ball is hit in the infield possible 45 ft. lane violation
4. Be ready if partner is out of position to aid in the swipe tag pulled foot at first base
5. For the most part all Catch / No catch balls with no-one on base
6. With partner in "B" / "C" Catch / No catch for balls outside the "V"
7. The FIRST Touch of third and tag-up of runner on third


Those are not all but my point was that the PU in a 2 person system has way more responsibilities than the BU.

In summary: I agree with Rich. No differential in pay but on the flip-side as Rich mentioned I am not doing 90 - 100% plates either.

I believe it was TEE who said an umpire makes his "bread / butter" when doing the dish.

Pete Booth

[MrUmpire]

[QUOTE=PeteBooth]

I agree with Rich and yourself about different pay 100% however I disagree with your statement

You make a "name" for yourself in doing the dish Also, in today's 2 person mechanics the PU does have MORE responsibility than the BU.

The PU has to

1. Call the Pitch (which you have to be focused)
2. Fair / Foul if the ball is hit
3. If the ball is hit in the infield possible 45 ft. lane violation
4. Be ready if partner is out of position to aid in the swipe tag pulled foot at first base
5. For the most part all Catch / No catch balls with no-one on base
6. With partner in "B" / "C" Catch / No catch for balls outside the "V"
7. The FIRST Touch of third and tag-up of runner on third


Those are not all but my point was that the PU in a 2 person system has way more responsibilities than the BU.

In summary: I agree with Rich. No differential in pay but on the flip-side as Rich mentioned I am not doing 90 - 100% plates either.

I believe it was TEE who said an umpire makes his "bread / butter" when doing the dish.

Pete Booth

Pete:

You are confusing "duties" or "tasks" with responsiblity. The responsibility entrusted to the BU is no less than that entrusted to the PU.

In the minor leagues, as I've been told by a few AAA umpires, you first move up based on your mechanics. Grass work is weighted heavily and your strike zone isn't commented on much at first. If you can't get your base work down, you are not likely to last to get to the point where your plate work will make a difference.

I never underestimate base work. I believe it was Jim Evans who said, "the grass is where the snakes live."

In a two man crew, the umpires are partners.

[bluezebra]

A lot of players have semi-pro experience, but choose to play in the rec league for various reasons.

What's the difference between 'semi-pro' and 'rec'?

Bob

[johnnyg08]

move to wood bats, enforce the speed up rules, have your association develop stringent ejection policies in their service agreement or you're not working their games...period. Tell the real morons to go play beer league softball where they belong.