Umpire Interference

[Rufus]

First of all, a big thank you to all who participate in this forum. It has proved to be educational as well as entertaining.

Second, had a situation in a game last night. We're defense, there is a runner on 3rd, two out, and our pitcher throws a wild pitch. As the catcher comes up to find/field the ball the PU moves to get out of his way. In the process PU inadvertently kicks the ball away from the catcher.

My assistant coach starts to point this fact out, somewhat loudly, but I remember from some dark recess of my memory that umpire contact with a ball is only interference if it occurs in fair territory and let my assistant coach know that. We play under USSSA and I looked in the rule book and that was the actual rule.

My question isn't so much about the play (stuff happens on the field to both players and officials), but why there isn't allowance for things like an umpire kicking a ball further away? I understand that the rule origin probably came from a pitched ball striking the umpire and ricocheting away, but in this case it was the umpire who initiated contact with the ball, not the other way around.

Thanks in advance.

[David B]

Originally Posted by Rufus

First of all, a big thank you to all who participate in this forum. It has proved to be educational as well as entertaining.

Second, had a situation in a game last night. We're defense, there is a runner on 3rd, two out, and our pitcher throws a wild pitch. As the catcher comes up to find/field the ball the PU moves to get out of his way. In the process PU inadvertently kicks the ball away from the catcher.

My assistant coach starts to point this fact out, somewhat loudly, but I remember from some dark recess of my memory that umpire contact with a ball is only interference if it occurs in fair territory and let my assistant coach know that. We play under USSSA and I looked in the rule book and that was the actual rule.

My question isn't so much about the play (stuff happens on the field to both players and officials), but why there isn't allowance for things like an umpire kicking a ball further away? I understand that the rule origin probably came from a pitched ball striking the umpire and ricocheting away, but in this case it was the umpire who initiated contact with the ball, not the other way around.

Thanks in advance.

Basically the umpire is always considered part of the field of play. Bottom line is that the defense erred to start the play by throwing a wild pitch, and there is no need for a rule to "get the defense off the hook" if the umpire accidentally contacts the ball etc.,

Same as if there is a foul pop and in "trying to get out of the way" the PU gets in the way of the F2. That's just part of the game the way it was designed.

Now if PU interferes with a throw or as you stated is contacted by a batted ball, then there is a need for a rule to "make the situation better" since the defense was doing what they should and the contact did affect their ability to make an out etc.,

Might be interesting to look and see if this rule has changed any through the years.

Thanks
David

[UMP25]

Originally Posted by David B

Basically the umpire is always considered part of the field of play.

This is not an accurate statement.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by UMP25

This is not an accurate statement.

True. But often the umpire is part of the field of play, or, as a clinician put it to me recently: "umpires are dirt!"

[TussAgee11]

Originally Posted by Rufus

First of all, a big thank you to all who participate in this forum. It has proved to be educational as well as entertaining.

Second, had a situation in a game last night. We're defense, there is a runner on 3rd, two out, and our pitcher throws a wild pitch. As the catcher comes up to find/field the ball the PU moves to get out of his way. In the process PU inadvertently kicks the ball away from the catcher.

My assistant coach starts to point this fact out, somewhat loudly, but I remember from some dark recess of my memory that umpire contact with a ball is only interference if it occurs in fair territory and let my assistant coach know that. We play under USSSA and I looked in the rule book and that was the actual rule.

My question isn't so much about the play (stuff happens on the field to both players and officials), but why there isn't allowance for things like an umpire kicking a ball further away? I understand that the rule origin probably came from a pitched ball striking the umpire and ricocheting away, but in this case it was the umpire who initiated contact with the ball, not the other way around.

Thanks in advance.

First, tell your assistant to shut his mouth. He's only going to make things worse for you, and impossible for him to make them better.

Secondly, this is just one of those things that's going to happen in a baseball game. Nothing to be done about it in the rules.

Kind of like if a thrown ball hits a runner even if he's going to be out by 30 feet, the ball is still live. Shouldn't have thrown it into him I guess. Same sort of logic applies in your situation.

[ozzy6900]

Originally Posted by Rufus

First of all, a big thank you to all who participate in this forum. It has proved to be educational as well as entertaining.

Second, had a situation in a game last night. We're defense, there is a runner on 3rd, two out, and our pitcher throws a wild pitch. As the catcher comes up to find/field the ball the PU moves to get out of his way. In the process PU inadvertently kicks the ball away from the catcher.

My assistant coach starts to point this fact out, somewhat loudly, but I remember from some dark recess of my memory that umpire contact with a ball is only interference if it occurs in fair territory and let my assistant coach know that. We play under USSSA and I looked in the rule book and that was the actual rule.

My question isn't so much about the play (stuff happens on the field to both players and officials), but why there isn't allowance for things like an umpire kicking a ball further away? I understand that the rule origin probably came from a pitched ball striking the umpire and ricocheting away, but in this case it was the umpire who initiated contact with the ball, not the other way around.

Thanks in advance.

Rufus, umpire’s interference can only occur under 2 conditions.

1. When plate umpire hinders or does something to prevent the catcher’s throw attempting to retire a runner stealing.
2. When a fair ball touches an umpire (usually the base umpire) in fair territory before passing a fielder other than the pitcher.

Anything else is, as other have pointed out, nothing - play on!

[UMP25]

Originally Posted by ozzy6900

2. When a fair ball touches an umpire (usually the base umpire) in fair territory before passing a fielder other than the pitcher.

I'd sure like to see a fair ball touch an umpire OTHER than a base umpire! That would be memorable, and indicative, IMHO, of an out of position umpire.

[Paul L]

Originally Posted by Rufus

why there isn't allowance for things like an umpire kicking a ball further away?

I wonder, did that wild pitch drop at the umpire's feet, instead of bouncing around the backstop, because it struck the umpire? If so, would you argue that the rules should have awarded R3 home?

[Steven Tyler]

Originally Posted by Paul L

I wonder, did that wild pitch drop at the umpire's feet, instead of bouncing around the backstop, because it struck the umpire? If so, would you argue that the rules should have awarded R3 home?

No.

[Rufus]

Originally Posted by Paul L

I wonder, did that wild pitch drop at the umpire's feet, instead of bouncing around the backstop, because it struck the umpire? If so, would you argue that the rules should have awarded R3 home?

Thanks again for the replies and for the advice to basically "play on". It's a lesson I'm trying to instill, and model, for the players and reinforcement like this helps.

To clarify, our catcher knocked the pitch down but it got by him so it was basically lying on the ground right behind him. In the attempt to get out of the way the PU knocked it to the backstop (not on purpose - he didn't know where the ball was either).

To the wild pitch comment - I agree whole heartedly! I would prefer it if it didn't happen at all. Combine 11 year-old pitching and catching in a rec league, however, and it's bound to come up (along with situations like this). When I'm better able to explain to the kids and parents why things happen the way they do in terms of officiating hopefully that will assist them as they go forward as a player and spectator.

[David B]

Originally Posted by Rufus

Thanks again for the replies and for the advice to basically "play on". It's a lesson I'm trying to instill, and model, for the players and reinforcement like this helps.

To clarify, our catcher knocked the pitch down but it got by him so it was basically lying on the ground right behind him. In the attempt to get out of the way the PU knocked it to the backstop (not on purpose - he didn't know where the ball was either).

To the wild pitch comment - I agree whole heartedly! I would prefer it if it didn't happen at all. Combine 11 year-old pitching and catching in a rec league, however, and it's bound to come up (along with situations like this). When I'm better able to explain to the kids and parents why things happen the way they do in terms of officiating hopefully that will assist them as they go forward as a player and spectator.

Nice to know that there are coaches who are trying to learn and teach. I know what you mean about 11 yr olds, my son is playing and its a big learning curve.

We had similiar play in game the other night, except the umpire was too slow and got in the way of F2 retreiving the ball from wild pitch and as he turned to make throw to F1, the ball hit the umpire who for some reason was right in his way.

Makes for good teachable moments, but of course most parents just don't understand it.

Thanks
David

[ozzy6900]

Originally Posted by UMP25

I'd sure like to see a fair ball touch an umpire OTHER than a base umpire! That would be memorable, and indicative, IMHO, of an out of position umpire.

Oh, I am sure that someone, somewhere can come up with some third world play where the plate umpire would be hit! Stranger things have happened on this board!

[BigUmp56]

Originally Posted by ozzy6900

Oh, I am sure that someone, somewhere can come up with some third world play where the plate umpire would be hit! Stranger things have happened on this board!

Dribbler up the first base line. With no runners on the completely inept PU trails the BR up the line and wanders passed the slow rolling duck that the even more inept F1 had a play on and missed. The dribbling orb now hits the PU in the back of his $100.00 GD patent leather plate shoes.................................

It could happen....................really.................. .........



Tim.

[Matt]

Originally Posted by BigUmp56

Dribbler up the first base line. With no runners on the completely inept PU trails the BR up the line and wanders passed the slow rolling duck that the even more inept F1 had a play on and missed. The dribbling orb now hits the PU in the back of his $100.00 GD patent leather plate shoes.................................

It could happen....................really.................. .........



Tim.

The one I was thinking of, less TWP, would be a deflection off the rubber into a quick-moving PU who has already moved into fair territory.

[UMP25]

In both situations the plate umpire should be shot. For stupidity if nothing else.