SRD - Umpire Interference

SamNVa · #1 (**permalink**) Tue Feb 20, 2001, 04:51pm

The ASA rule reads:

8-1-E The batter becomes a batter runner when... a fair batted ball strikes the person, equipment, or clothing of an umpire ...

EFFECT:

if after touching a fielder (including the pitcher), the ball is in play
if after passing a fielder and no other infielder had the chance to make an out, the ball is in play.
if before passing a fielder without being touched, the ball is dead. If the ball hits a runner who is off base before it passes a fielder (other than the pitcher) or if it has passed a fielder and another fielder has the possibility to make an out, the runner is out and the batter is awarded 1st.
if a fair batted ball hits an umpire before passing a fielder (excluding the pitcher) the ball is dead and the BR is awarded 1st.

The FED rule reads:

5.1.1 Ball becomes dead immediately when:

touches a runner or umpire before touching any fielder and before passing any fielder other than the pitcher (Exception 8-4-2.n which deals with the runner in the case of a 2nd fielder having a play);
touches a runner after passing through or by a fielder and another fielder could have made a play on the ball (same as 8-4-2.n IMO but referenced here any way??)
touches a spectator,
goes over, through, or wedges in the fence.

The "OBR" leagues rule reads

6.08 The batter becomes a runner and is entitled to 1st base ... when -

If a fair ball touches an umpire after having passed a fielder other than the pitcher or having touched a fielder including the pitcher, the ball is in play. (No mention of the 2nd fielder here.

So it appears that in FED and OBR, a fair ball which hits an umpire after passing a fielder (other than the pitcher) is still in play whether a 2nd fielder had a play on the ball or not, but the ASA rule seems to indicate (by implication in 8.1.E-2) that the ball would be dead if a 2nd fielder had a chance to make an out although 8.1.E-3 and 4 could be construed to indicate otherwise.

So do you folks see this as a real rule difference or possibly just incomplete or poor wording in the ASA book or the FED book or the "OBR" books?

Steve M · #2 (**permalink**) Tue Feb 20, 2001, 05:22pm

I'm sure that there is a difference between ASA and OBR, but I'm not sure about Fed. I as under the impression tht the crieria for Fed matched that of ASA. ASA (and NCAA) are pretty clear about this, if you've got a fielder who has a good chance of making an out, that's interference. Leads to the question "What's a good chance of getting an out" My working definition is that an out will be made if the defense does not make an error.
In baseball, I don't think we're too likely to see this come up - If I'm in A, then F4 ain't gonna make it behind me normally and ain't been nobody named Roberto Clemente playing F9 for about 20-some years. If I'm in B or C and get hit, it hasn't passed a fielder. So, I don't see this siuation happening more than once every several years at the most.

Gulf Coast Blue · #3 (**permalink**) Tue Feb 20, 2001, 07:40pm

Sam......

If you go back (either on McGriff's or eteamz) there was a long discussion on the BB side of what the definition of "by and infielder meant.

Bob P. is back posting on McG's and if you have a quesion regarding the OBR ruling......you will soon get a 1000 word essay on this very topic.

As you and Steve mentioned......ASA requires that we decide even after the ball has passed an infielder (except the pitcher) that in order for it to be interference, there must be another fielder who was not given an opportunity to make an OUT.

I rarely see this in older age softball......but believe it or not.....in an a single 8U game I called last spring......3 runners were hit with a batted ball

Now the infielders at this age play very close in.....so you will almost always have the ball passing an infielder....and it is HIGHLY unlikely that any F7-F10 (yes....4 outfielders) were hindered in thier chance to make and out.......LIVE BALL.

Tough to explain that one to a coach who grew up watching BB on TV who KNOWS that any time a runner is hit with a batted ball they are out.

As to whether the rules could be clearer.......ASA covers this in POE #37 (2000 book), and in the ASA casebook pages 8-48 and 8-49, FED has a casebook play 8-4-2-E that covers runner interference as well.....for umpire interference in ASA also look at 10-8-D.

The OBR has the JR/JEA/NAPBL manual and such to straighten out such things.....but as I said.....just ask Bob P. and you will get your answer.

Joel

SamNVa · #4 (**permalink**) Tue Feb 20, 2001, 09:51pm

I'm sorry if I wasn't clear enough in my first post. I'm very comfortable with what to call if the ball hits a runner in all situations. My question concerns a ball hitting an umpire. My impression has always been that if a ball passes a fielder and hits an umpire, it's a live ball, play on regardless of whether another fielder had a play on the ball or not. Fed and LL/BR (the "OBR" softball leagues) tend to support this in their rules; ASA seems to imply otherwize although it's not explicitly stated in the ASA rules.

I realize that this shouldn't be a problem in softball since we are usually outside in B or C, but my association is "encouraging" us to move slightly inside F4 or F6 when they are playing near the outfield grass, so there is some possibility for this to happen.

Steve M · #5 (**permalink**) Tue Feb 20, 2001, 09:59pm

Sam,
OK, sorry 'bout that. Anyway, yes, you're right. Batted ball hits an ump after passing a fielder, it is still a dead ball & ump interference if another fielder had a good chance to get an out. If F4 is that far back, I'd go on the "rim" of the outfield grass a few steps toward 2B.

IRISHMAFIA · #6 (**permalink**) Wed Feb 21, 2001, 07:26am

Sam,

When F4 is playing deep, ASA mechanics allow the umpire to work the middle as opposed to off F4s shoulder with runners on base.

If it is necessary to work the middle, the umpire should position him/herself one step behind a straight line between the two infielders. ASA's idea of a ball passing an infielder is when it breaks the plane between the two defensive players on either side of the ball's path.

SamNVa · #7 (**permalink**) Wed Feb 21, 2001, 09:44am

Thanks for the advice, folks. As I said, the reason for the question is that my association is experimenting with a new mechanic this year by having the BU move closer to the middle and farther inside closer to the edge of the infield grass when F4 and F6 are playing deep. While this probably won't be a problem, since I'm a big guy (outside of Texas anyway 8-), I'm just a little uncomfortable with being so close on a small field. Again, thanks for the advice.