A couple of obstruction questions (OBR)

[Jay R]

OBR rules. Type B obstruction.

#1. R2. 0 out. The batter singles to RF. R2 holds at 2nd base thinking the right fielder might catch the ball. The BR rounds 1st base and collides with F3. Obstruction is indicated. The BR continues to run to 2nd base where both R2 and the BR are standing on 2nd base. The defensive players tags both runners. What is the call?

#2. R1,R2,R3. 0 out. The batter doubles and both R3 and R2 score. R1 is obstructed while rounding 3rd base. He continues home where he is safe at the plate. On the throw home, the BR attempts to go to 3rd base. The catcher throws to 3rd base where the BR is called out. Does the play stand?

[Emperor Ump]

Sit 1. Because of the obstruction on the BR you would have awarded him 2nd and R2 would be forced to advanve. So no Outs, R2 & R3.

Sit . Yes the play stands. R1 was awarded home no protection given to trailing runners.

[TussAgee11]

Since you are using OBR...

just to clarify on your first situation...

If you as the umpire protected him to second base or beyond, then you would award him that base and move along any forced runners.

Since the BR got to 2nd safely anyways, it appears as though you should have at least protected him to there, in order to nullify the act of OBS.

[Steven Tyler]

Originally Posted by Emperor Ump

Sit 1. Because of the obstruction on the BR you would have awarded him 2nd and R2 would be forced to advanve. So no Outs, R2 & R3.

Sit . Yes the play stands. R1 was awarded home no protection given to trailing runners.

1. I would have B/R out. I don't think he should be protected to 2B if R1 stopped at 2B.

2. Sounds like Type A obstruction in this. The ball is immediately dead and all runners including BR are awarded bases accordingly.

[Paul L]

1. Since R2 is not forced to advance, he is entitled to second base, and BR would not have gotten to second. My judgment almost certainly would be that absent the obstruction, BR would have noticed R2 still at second and would have successfully retreated to first. Since it's Type B obstruction, BR is not entltled to at least one base, which would have forced R2 to third. So BR is now R1 and R2 is still R2, no outs, let's play.

2. Unless the obstruction somehow enabled F2 to make the play at third (I dunno, didn't waste any time trying to tag R1 since he was going to be protected home anyway?), I have BR out at third. Type B obstruction is delayed dead ball, and the "penalty" is nullifying the obstruction.

[Steven Tyler]

Originally Posted by msavakinas

1. I agree

2. Just to clarify the ball isn't dead upon a play being made on R1 at home correct? So say the ball is cutoff and then the BR is dead to rights at 2nd he's out.

Situation 2. I'm sorry. I meant Type A.

OP had ball going to the catcher and catcher throwing to 3B.

[DG]

From J/R: R2, one out. The batter hits a pop fly to shallow right-center field. Misplayed, the ball drops amidst three fielders. R2 is unable to advance and has returned to second. The batter-runner rounds first agressively (c) and is obstructed, but continues to advance to second without hesitation. He is able to reach second, and jointly occupies it with R2, when both runners are tagged: the batter-runner (following runner) is out. He is required to realize that R2 has not advanced. The obstruction does not give him license to ignore the actions of his teammate while advancing.

[socalblue1]

Originally Posted by Paul L

1. Since R2 is not forced to advance, he is entitled to second base, and BR would not have gotten to second. My judgment almost certainly would be that absent the obstruction, BR would have noticed R2 still at second and would have successfully retreated to first. Since it's Type B obstruction, BR is not entitled to at least one base, which would have forced R2 to third. So BR is now R1 and R2 is still R2, no outs, let's play.

2. Unless the obstruction somehow enabled F2 to make the play at third (I dunno, didn't waste any time trying to tag R1 since he was going to be protected home anyway?), I have BR out at third. Type B obstruction is delayed dead ball, and the "penalty" is nullifying the obstruction.

You judgment and rule interpretation are faulty and have no basis in the rules.

Play #1 we have batter-runner protected to 2B (At most) on the obstruction. As he reached the protected base safely the obstruction is ignored. If protected to 1B he may attempt to advance as his own risk. either way the obstruction is nullified

No fault of the defense that R2 failed to advance. Batter-runner is out on the tag & R2 remains at 2B.

Play #2 the obstructed runner (R1) reached his protected base. Plkay continues without reference to the obstruction, batter-runner out at 3B.

[Welpe]

Originally Posted by socalblue1

You judgment and rule interpretation are faulty and have no basis in the rules.

Play #1 we have batter-runner protected to 2B (At most) on the obstruction. As he reached the protected base safely the obstruction is ignored. If protected to 1B he may attempt to advance as his own risk. either way the obstruction is nullified

No fault of the defense that R2 failed to advance. Batter-runner is out on the tag & R2 remains at 2B.

However BR hasn't legally aquired 2B since R2 is already occupying it. If you protect BR to 2B, he hasn't aquired it so he would be awarded 2B, wouldn't he?

[Paul L]

Originally Posted by socalblue1

You judgment and rule interpretation are faulty and have no basis in the rules.
. . . If protected to 1B he may attempt to advance as his own risk. either way the obstruction is nullified.

Uh, yep, you (and Mssrs. Jaska and Roder) are right. OBR rule 7.06(b) comment: "when the ball is not dead on obstruction and an obstructed runner advances beyond the base which, in the umpire's judgment, he would have been awarded because of being obstructed, he does so at his own peril and may be tagged out. This is a judgment call."

So I would have the BR protected to first, and out at second.

[socalblue1]

Originally Posted by Welpe

However BR hasn't legally acquired 2B since R2 is already occupying it. If you protect BR to 2B, he hasn't aquired it so he would be awarded 2B, wouldn't he?

Good thought, though in this case it wouldn't apply.

With Type B Obstruction we have the luxury of being able to use all the information available for the entire play as the basis to determine what award, if any, will be made.

While we may have initially protected the batter-runner to 2b on the Obstruction that can change as the play develops. In this case R2 failed to advance, resulting in the batter-runner being tagged out. Absent the obstruction would the result have been different?

[Shmuelg]

socal,

Makes sense what you say. After all, why should the offense get an "award" for foolish baserunning?

But let me ask this question:

Say, BR did NOT go to 2B, and he went back to 1B. NOW what?

Do we not award him 2B (if in our judgement he would have made 2B absent the obstruction), and thereby give R2 3B?

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by Shmuelg

socal,

Makes sense what you say. After all, why should the offense get an "award" for foolish baserunning?

But let me ask this question:

Say, BR did NOT go to 2B, and he went back to 1B. NOW what?

Do we not award him 2B (if in our judgement he would have made 2B absent the obstruction), and thereby give R2 3B?

Not in OBR, where the award aims to nullify the act of obstruction. Without OBS, BR would have ended up on 1B. If that's where he is now, then we're good.

[Emperor Ump]

Originally Posted by DG

From J/R: R2, one out. The batter hits a pop fly to shallow right-center field. Misplayed, the ball drops amidst three fielders. R2 is unable to advance and has returned to second. The batter-runner rounds first agressively (c) and is obstructed, but continues to advance to second without hesitation. He is able to reach second, and jointly occupies it with R2, when both runners are tagged: the batter-runner (following runner) is out. He is required to realize that R2 has not advanced. The obstruction does not give him license to ignore the actions of his teammate while advancing.

I stand corrected.. Thx DG

[Jay R]

Thank you for your responses.

Regarding the 2nd question, my confusion with Type B obstruction is wether to call time when the play occurs at home or let the play continue. If I understand, I would only call time if the runner was out. If the runner is safe, let the play continue without reference to obstruction.