Going Solo

[rngrck]

While working solo, is it advisable to call time after making calls on the bases while I'm near the mound and going back to my position behind the plate. I found myself doing this alot, didn't want to miss a play with my back turned.

[johnnyg08]

you're not going to call anything that you can't see anyway...I understand why you'd do this while working one man...it's a bit risky, I know, but where I work, the players pretty much get the fact that when a play is over, it's over and when my back is turned to the field of play, I'm not making any calls either way...so I don't always call "time" but I can see where your plan is probably better than mine...but it seems to work for me...

[CO ump]

Originally Posted by johnnyg08

you're not going to call anything that you can't see anyway...I understand why you'd do this while working one man...it's a bit risky, I know, but where I work, the players pretty much get the fact that when a play is over, it's over and when my back is turned to the field of play, I'm not making any calls either way...so I don't always call "time" but I can see where your plan is probably better than mine...but it seems to work for me...

By not making a call what do you mean?

Sit. 1

Your near the mound after a bases empty single. F2 has the ball. You turn to return to HP. F2 snaps a throw to F3 because R1 went brain dead and was already off the bag. You hear the roar of the crowd and realize there's something happening. You turn just in time to see the ball roll into DBT. What do you do?

1. If you say award bases, how many? your back was turned, was f2 on the rubber or not?

2. Based on where F2 was when you turned your back you decide to award 2 bases. Now defensive coach comes out and he's pi$$ed. Apparently (at least according to def. coach) R1 deliberately interfered with F2s throw and needs to be called out. Hearing this argument 3rd base coach comes running in saying there was no interference, F3 was blocking the bag without the ball, he obstructed and my guy had no place to go.


I'm not sure what the disadvantage of calling time is when you turn your back, but I know what it can be if you don't.

[johnnyg08]

I got nothing...I don't disagree with you...but at my pregame, I tell the mgrs, that there's only one of me out here...whenever possible I try to not turn my back on the field...but in the sitch you describe, I call nothing...my back was turned, there's one ump, the play was over.

You're right there's not a disadvantage...as I said earlier, I should do it more, but it does seem to slow the flow of the game...in my expereince anyway...your way is probably the right way to do it...your points are all excellent

[GarthB]

Originally Posted by johnnyg08

I got nothing...I don't disagree with you...but at my pregame, I tell the mgrs, that there's only one of me out here...whenever possible I try to not turn my back on the field...but in the sitch you describe, I call nothing...my back was turned, there's one ump, the play was over.

You're right there's not a disadvantage...as I said earlier, I should do it more, but it does seem to slow the flow of the game...in my expereince anyway...your way is probably the right way to do it...your points are all excellent

When I worked a few one-man games back in the day, I agreed with you. Calling time does delay a game. Players hear time and wander. Coaches begin communicating with players....people just relax and then take time to get focused and back in position when play is called. The less often time is called the better.


In the extremely rare situation that something happens when your back is turned. Stop it and put it back where it was. No problem. If you are hustling, no one is going to b!tch. If it happens and you're strolling, then they will, and you'll deserve it.

This is what Frosh? JV? And one-man to boot. He!!, keep it going.

[CO ump]

Originally Posted by GarthB

When I worked a few one-man games back in the day, I agreed with you. Calling time does delay a game. Players hear time and wander. Coaches begin communicating with players....people just relax and then take time to get focused and back in position when play is called. The less often time is called the better.


In the extremely rare situation that something happens when your back is turned. Stop it and put it back where it was. No problem. If you are hustling, no one is going to b!tch. If it happens and you're strolling, then they will, and you'll deserve it.

This is what Frosh? JV? And one-man to boot. He!!, keep it going.

Garth am I reading this right? You're endorsing turning your back on a live ball.
Are there any other live ball situations that you endorse "do overs"

What if:
R2
sharp grounder to F6 he gloves it pump fakes to first, umpire swivels head to first, split second later realizes no throw was made, turns back to F6 and realizes he's missed a play on R2.
Should umpire stop play and put everyone back "sorry, do over, I missed it"
This case and above situation are both screw ups and umpire misses the play in both cases.
Why is one a do over and the other isn't?

[johnnyg08]

it's not a do over...it's understood where I work anyway, that with one man, when the play's over, it's over...watch any baseball game and there's "that down moment" where you walk back to your postion...you get caught turning your back during a play...that's a different story...it's not a do over...like I said before...if you want to call time, call time...there's nothing wrong with it...how much 1 man do you work??

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by CO ump

Garth am I reading this right? You're endorsing turning your back on a live ball.

This ties for the dumbest post on the internet.

Garth says: "If you screw up, here's how to deal with it."

CO Ump says: "So Garth, you're endorsing screwing up?"

Sheesh.

[CO ump]

Originally Posted by mbyron

This ties for the dumbest post on the internet.

Garth says: "If you screw up, here's how to deal with it."

CO Ump says: "So Garth, you're endorsing screwing up?"

Sheesh.

Mr. Byron,

Comprehension is everything

Garth said:
"In the extremely rare situation that something happens when your back is turned. Stop it and put it back where it was. No problem."

If time is called when you turn your back nothing can happen. Therefore it seems to me he is endorsing turning your back on a live ball.
Also he doesn't say it's rare to turn your back on a live ball, he's saying it's rare that something happens when you do turn your back.

The last line of his post is "He!! keep it going"
In context with the rest of his post one can only deduct that he means don't call time keep the ball live. Again this would be an endorsement of turning your back on a live ball.

If you think the only point of his post was how to deal with a screw up I ask you what screw up would that be?
That screw up would have to be turning your back on a live ball. The balance of his post does not at all indicate that he considers this a screw up, rather an unfortunate result of a conscious decision to keep the game moving by not calling time.

Hence my question:
Garth are you really endorsing turning your back on a live ball?

[johnnyg08]

What difference does it make to you?...pretty sure in a one man game...do what you wish...you want to call time, call time, Garth will do his thing...pretty sure he's capable of handling his situations...I'll answer your question for me...on how you're putting it, yes, from time to time I'll turn my back on a live ball when I'm working one-man...take away my birthday

[GarthB]

Originally Posted by CO ump

Mr. Byron,

Comprehension is everything

Garth said:
"In the extremely rare situation that something happens when your back is turned. Stop it and put it back where it was. No problem."

If time is called when you turn your back nothing can happen. Therefore it seems to me he is endorsing turning your back on a live ball.
Also he doesn't say it's rare to turn your back on a live ball, he's saying it's rare that something happens when you do turn your back.

The last line of his post is "He!! keep it going"
In context with the rest of his post one can only deduct that he means don't call time keep the ball live. Again this would be an endorsement of turning your back on a live ball.

If you think the only point of his post was how to deal with a screw up I ask you what screw up would that be?
That screw up would have to be turning your back on a live ball. The balance of his post does not at all indicate that he considers this a screw up, rather an unfortunate result of a conscious decision to keep the game moving by not calling time.

Hence my question:
Garth are you really endorsing turning your back on a live ball?

No, what I'm saying is that in the few one man games that I have done, and the in the one man games for which I train umpires, at the conclusion of play, if the umpire has had to come out make a call, the ball is now dead as he jogs back to the plate, without him calling time.

The reason is what I stated before, to keep the flow going and to discourage additional activites of the coaches and players that would delay putting the ball in play.

And IF, some numb nut decides create a play situation while the umpire is jobbing back to the plate, the umpire would put things back as they were, just as he would if time had been called.

The result is no different than if he had called time after every play, except the game will be ten miuntes shorter.

If you have a problem with working Frosh one man games in this manner, then don't.

[CO ump]

Originally Posted by GarthB

No, what I'm saying is that in the few one man games that I have done, and the in the one man games for which I train umpires, at the conclusion of play, if the umpire has had to come out make a call, the ball is now dead as he jogs back to the plate, without him calling time.

The reason is what I stated before, to keep the flow going and to discourage additional activites of the coaches and players that would delay putting the ball in play.

And IF, some numb nut decides create a play situation while the umpire is jobbing back to the plate, the umpire would put things back as they were, just as he would if time had been called.

The result is no different than if he had called time after every play, except the game will be ten miuntes shorter.

If you have a problem with working Frosh one man games in this manner, then don't.

First off this is a forum where mechanics, rules, rule interps and umpire stuff is discussed and hopefully some learning takes place. The next time I or some one else posts an incorrect mechanic or a bad rules interp you will be one of the first to correct it.
I'm sure many new and inexperienced umps are reading your posts, and so they should, you're probably one of the top 5 knowledgeable and experienced guys on the board, which is why I was surprised when you stated that turning your back on a live ball was ok.

I'm very confused over your explanation. The ball is either dead or it's live, there's no middle ground. If the ball is dead it must be put back in play.
If you teach that the ball is automatically dead when you turn your back so be it. But it is an improper mechanic, or lack of mechanic and no one but you knows the ball is dead.

And why in the world would a kid be a numb nut for creating a play during live ball action? I don't remember ever being taught to make sure the ump is watching before advancing, there's nothing in the rules that obligates the player to wait for the umpire during live ball action.
You would be the numb nut for not calling time.
I think you're teaching terrible mechanics and creating a real opportunity for a crap house for what? To maybe save 5 minutes.

Garth you may have the skills and presence on the field to handle the coach when you have to send a runner back or deny an out by the defense that was made while the ball was live and your back was turned. But you teach and have influence over many new and inexperienced umps who have not developed the same game management skills that you have and your endorsement and teaching of this terrible mechanic isn't helping them.

Teaching improper mechanics for the sake of getting off the field quicker isn't something I expected from you

[GarthB]

Originally Posted by CO ump

So, you disagree with the way we perform one-man mechanics when we are forced to do at a sub varsity level? I can live with that.

[CO ump]

Originally Posted by johnnyg08

What difference does it make to you?...pretty sure in a one man game...do what you wish...you want to call time, call time, Garth will do his thing...pretty sure he's capable of handling his situations...I'll answer your question for me...on how you're putting it, yes, from time to time I'll turn my back on a live ball when I'm working one-man...take away my birthday

johnny
If I said I use my left hand to signal strikes, you think you, Garth and few others might have a comment for me?
If I said I point to my partner with my right hand on an appeal and that's the best way to do it, I might get some feedback?
If I said I didn't like the pivot move and instead stayed on the outside because I got better angles, you think I might catch some flak?

So my question is What difference does it make to you?

It's a forum where opinions are shared and crtiques are given with or without permission and many umpires especially newer ones benefit.
Without going into the archives I'll venture to guess that Garth has many times corrected a stated rules interp or corrected a mechanic, not to show up the original poster but to make sure the umps reading the post are not misled.
It's the beauty of this forum that improper mechanics and bad rule interps ususally get vetted.

I'm sorry you're offended but bad mechanics are bad mechanics no matter who's performing or promoting them. If you disagree then say so but if you don't want to be critiqued then don't announce on the board what you're doing.

[CO ump]

Originally Posted by GarthB

So, you disagree with the way we perform one-man mechanics when we are forced to do at a sub varsity level? I can live with that.

Most umps doing sub varsity are on their way up the ladder not taking a temporary step down. Therefore, I think we agree, they need to be learning proper mechanics, not shortcuts to getting off the field 5 minutes quicker.