Hitting object in fair, then going over fence

[gordon30307]

Originally Posted by bossman72

I'm pretty sure i know the ruling to these, but i'm not totally sure. A few scenarios:


Batter hits a shot that will clearly go over the fence for a home run.

1) The ball hits the scoreboard (which is entirely in fair territory and inside the fence) and (a) goes over the fence or (b) deflects back onto the field

2) The ball hits a tree (which is outside the fence, but a significant portion is dangling in fair territory) and (a) goes over the fence or (b) falls back into fair territory and is caught by F8. Would the ruling differ if the ball just grazed the tree?

3) The ball hits the foul pole (which is entirely INSIDE the fence- not even with it) and (a) goes over the fence in fair territory (b) goes over in foul (c) deflects off and comes back into the field

If there is a difference between OBR and FED, be sure to note it.


Thanks!

Points 1 and 2 are pregame ground rule issues.

Point 3 Never seen it and I never will. Sounds like your classic TWP!!!!!!!!!

[gordon30307]

Originally Posted by dash_riprock

YOU determine the grounds rules, not the coaches. Instead of "Coach - take us around please" at the plate meeting, you take them around. It sets the proper tone for the game. And if you're unfamiliar with the field, get there early and walk it.

You are so very wrong it's pathetic.

Home team determines ground rules. Ground rules cannot supercede the rule book. In this case you can determine the ground rule. In the event that the visiting team objects to a "ground rule" (other than one that supercedes the rule book) you can either go with the home teams interpretation or modify it.

[bob jenkins]

FED "almost" answers these questions on 2002 Interps 6 and 7. IN general, a batted ball that hits an object inside the fence "remains in play" and (by rule -- often ignored, I agree) cannot be a home run just because it "hits above a yellow line".

Scoreboard: If the ball continues across the fence without hitting a fielder, then I'd have a home run. If it stays inside the fence, then it's in play. IOW, I'd define the scoreboard as being the "fence" for that portion of the field.

Foul Pole: By tradition, a ball hitting the top part of the pole is OOP. I'd define the "fence" to include the lower part of the pole -- anything hitting the upper part would be a HR.

Tree: Keep the ball in play. Cannot be caught for an out. HR if goes over the fence.

[dash_riprock]

Originally Posted by gordon30307

You are so very wrong it's pathetic.

Home team determines ground rules. Ground rules cannot supercede the rule book. In this case you can determine the ground rule. In the event that the visiting team objects to a "ground rule" (other than one that supercedes the rule book) you can either go with the home teams interpretation or modify it.

Is it pathetic to arrive early and walk an unfamiliar field to prevent the umpire's worst enemy from rearing its ugly head?

Is it pathetic to take charge of the pre-game meeting to demonstrate, in a non overly-officious way, that you are in charge of the game and that you take your responsibilities seriously?

Of course ground rules cannot supersede a rule - I never implied otherwise.

The great majority of ground rules come right out of the rules book or common sense, requiring no clarification from the home coach. If there is an unusual condition not covered by the rules, of course I will ask the home coach how it has been dealt with in the past and the visiting coach if he agrees. And if there is a dispute, the UIC resolves it.

I don't recall if it was a college or pro clinic where this practice was taught, but it made sense to everyone. Rarely do I get a comment from a coach, and all of them have been positive.

[bobbybanaduck]

Originally Posted by gordon30307

You are so very wrong it's pathetic.

Home team determines ground rules. Ground rules cannot supercede the rule book. In this case you can determine the ground rule. In the event that the visiting team objects to a "ground rule" (other than one that supercedes the rule book) you can either go with the home teams interpretation or modify it.

the rule says the home team manager will present the ground rules to the umpires and visiting manager and IF they are acceptable then that's what will be used. who do you think determines if they are acceptable?

this is the actual piece of paper that was posted in the new britain stadium (AA Eastern League) umpire locker room.

[dash_riprock]

Very interesting - thanks for posting that. When you work there, is it customary to correct the errors in the ground rules every game or just with new managers? The piece of paper looks ancient.

[waltjp]

Thrown ball into dugout or stands from infielders - one base

Thrown ball into dugout or stands from outfielder - two bases

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by dash_riprock

Play it off the tree? Not in my game.

You've obviously never seen the "Oak Monster."

[bobbybanaduck]

Originally Posted by waltjp

Thrown ball into dugout or stands from infielders - one base

Thrown ball into dugout or stands from outfielder - two bases

of all the issues those have, THAT'S the one you pick??? how about batted or thrown ball hits umpire, dead ball? or throw from fielder hts on deck batter, dead ball? or bated ball hits pitcher's in bullpen, double????

Originally Posted by dash_riprock

Very interesting - thanks for posting that. When you work there, is it customary to correct the errors in the ground rules every game or just with new managers? The piece of paper looks ancient.

the piece of paper can't be too ancient...the stadium was opened in 96. at the league meeting the president asked for a volunteer to update the ground rules as they were pretty much awful throughout the league. i started doing it but my interests changed as the season progressed. to answer your question about what is customary at the plate meeting...typically we run through the ground rules at the start of each series ifit is the ffirst visit for the visitors to that stadium that year. if it is not their first visit then we just ask if they have any questions. however, at this stadium there are so many weird things going on with the outfield wall that we pretty much went all the way around before the start of each series whether it was the first trip in or not.

[Forest Ump]

I never let base awards become part of my plate meeting. When a coach ask or tells me how many bases a person gets, I tell them that we will determine the award of bases based on the play. I stop them right there with any more qustions about that subject and move on.